St. George Race: Preview and Pro Insights, Hayden Wild's Wild Weekend
A comprehensive examination of the upcoming 70.3 St. George triathlon reveals a backdrop filled with excitement and anticipation. The conversation between the hosts, Matthew Sharp, an Olympian and triathlon champion, and Jeff Sankoff, a medical contributor and experienced coach, delves into the intricacies of race preparations, the unique landscape of St. George, and the key competitors expected to dominate the event. The hosts discuss the historical significance of the race, recounting past thrilling finishes, particularly the intense showdown between renowned athletes Lionel Sanders and Sam Long, emphasizing the stakes involved for both professionals and age-groupers alike. They explore the course's challenging elements, notably the famed Snow Canyon, which tests even the most seasoned athletes with its steep climbs and rugged terrain, setting the stage for a day filled with fierce competition.
The podcast transitions to a critical discussion regarding the rising concern of doping within age-group triathletes, sparked by an article highlighting increased testing protocols at the Roth Triathlon. The hosts reflect on the implications of such measures, particularly in light of findings revealing that a significant percentage of athletes had admitted to using performance-enhancing substances. This conversation not only sheds light on the ethical dilemmas surrounding doping in sports but also raises questions about the integrity of competition and the responsibility of race organizers to ensure fair play. The hosts ponder whether the mere announcement of enhanced testing could serve as a deterrent for would-be cheaters, suggesting that the psychological impact of potential repercussions may outweigh the physical consequences of being caught.
The episode culminates in an analysis of Hayden Wild's remarkable performance over the weekend, juxtaposed with the unfortunate news of his subsequent injury from a bike accident. The hosts recount Wild's impressive achievement of shattering his personal best in the 10k, a feat that exemplifies his exceptional talent and rigorous training regimen. However, this triumph is soon overshadowed by a harrowing account of his accident, which left him with multiple injuries, including broken ribs and a scapula, prompting discussions on the recovery process for elite athletes. They speculate on the likely timeline for his return to competition, considering factors such as the physical demands of rehabilitation and the psychological challenges of returning to form after a traumatic event.
The hosts reflect on the broader implications of such injuries, particularly in the highly demanding world of professional triathlon, where the pressure to perform at peak levels can be overwhelming. They express empathy for Wild, recognizing the emotional and mental toll that such setbacks can impose on an athlete's career. This segment not only highlights the fragility of the athletic pursuit but also serves to inspire listeners, illustrating the resilience and determination required to overcome obstacles in the quest for excellence in sport. As they conclude the episode, the hosts reaffirm their commitment to follow Wild's recovery journey, reinforcing the podcast's dedication to engaging with the triathlon community and promoting a culture of support and encouragement.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
Welcome to Tempo Talks, a show that brings you analysis of the biggest stories in triathlon training, tips to make you a better athlete, and breakdowns of the latest science and performance.
Speaker A:I'm Matthew Sharp, an olympian in triathlon, 70.3 champion and co founder of the Tempo News.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeff Sankoff, the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at Life Sport Coaching.
Speaker B:Our goal, inform and entertain two perspectives.
Speaker B:One sport, all things triathlon.
Speaker B:Now let's get into it.
Speaker B:Matt, how's it going out there in St.
Speaker B:George?
Speaker A:Yes, I've landed in St.
Speaker A:George.
Speaker A:Actually, I didn't land in St.
Speaker A:George.
Speaker A:I landed in Vegas and then drove to St.
Speaker A:George.
Speaker A:But there was a throng, a flotilla, whatever metaphor you want of bike boxes at the airport.
Speaker A:Yeah, I bet everybody's coming to town.
Speaker A:A lot of good energy so far anyways.
Speaker A:And I've never been to St.
Speaker A:George and just in the few hours that I've been here, I understand why people talk highly of it, for sure.
Speaker B:Oh, you've never been there first time.
Speaker B:Ah, it's such a.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm glad you're there for.
Speaker B:Because the race unfortunately is going away and it's a race I've done a few times and it's so funny, up until a certain point I had never been.
Speaker B:And then in rapid succession, over the course of four or five years, I was there multiple times.
Speaker B:I did World's there twice.
Speaker B:I did the race itself twice.
Speaker A:Did you do the Ironman and.
Speaker B:No, I just did 70.3 worlds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But I've gone there for a couple of camps and it's just such a great little town.
Speaker B:It's unfortunate that it has grown as fast as it has because the first time I went there, the town was very manageable, very small.
Speaker B:And the last time I went there, I was like, oh, my gosh, this place is so big and it's in the middle of a desert and it just doesn't seem viable.
Speaker A:But yeah, it's quite the.
Speaker A:It's quite the setting.
Speaker A:I didn't understand how you're the backdrop of mountains and there's the red rocks and everything.
Speaker A:So it's a very rugged landscape.
Speaker B:So beautiful.
Speaker B:But that drive, that drive from Las Vegas is spectacular.
Speaker B:Yeah, mountains.
Speaker A:Yeah, I quite like the desert landscape.
Speaker A:I lived like off and on in Phoenix for many years, training and yeah, I do love the desert.
Speaker A:So driving in, I was like, oh, this is good, good energy.
Speaker B:And the other fun part, of course, is what you change time zones three times you fly from Denver to Vegas, change your watch, then you fly Vegas, then you drive Vegas to St.
Speaker B:George.
Speaker B:You got to change your watch again to back to where we were.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:No, it was funn.
Speaker A:Great spot here.
Speaker A:A lot of people in town and last one, so we got to make it a good one.
Speaker B:Don't forget when you're driving back about the time zone thing for your flight.
Speaker A:Oh, thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah, I have made that mistake once before because you're in Utah looking at your watch and you're like, oh, the flight actually leaves a little bit different time.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:Good reminder.
Speaker A:Good reminder.
Speaker B:All right, we've got a good lineup for the show today.
Speaker B:We're just not going to get to talk about Texas.
Speaker B:We missed our chance.
Speaker B:I guess so.
Speaker B:But we got a lot of good stuff to talk.
Speaker B:So what's on tap today, Matt?
Speaker A:Today we are going to be talking about 70.3St.
Speaker A:George, great battle at pro series race.
Speaker A:So we'll be previewing that and then we'll get into this age group doping article that I came across, just about increased testing of age group doping.
Speaker A:So that's interesting at a certain race.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:And then finally we will talk about Hayden Wild's Wild Weekend.
Speaker A:That's the only way to describe it.
Speaker A:Roller coaster.
Speaker B:Yeah, it sounds like a movie again.
Speaker B:All right, let's talk about the.
Speaker B:The race, St.
Speaker B:George.
Speaker B:You're there.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's always a fantastic event for everyone, age groupers and pros, but we have seen just some amazing racing there.
Speaker B:The one that comes to mind, of course, was the showdown between Lionel and Sam Long on that incredible run finish of.
Speaker B:Gosh, it's a few years ago now.
Speaker B:I was there racing that 23.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What an amazing finish that was.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Who's lining up with you this weekend?
Speaker A:We can get into the men's race.
Speaker A:There's just a lot of bodies.
Speaker A:I think there's 65 male pros out there.
Speaker A:Definitely of varying abilities, no doubt.
Speaker A:But that's just how it is.
Speaker A:I would say, really, the headliners, the kind of big draws in this race will really come down to the big three that are on the start line.
Speaker A:So the big three, obviously, Lionel, Sam Long, and then Magnus Ditlev, which is quite, quite the firepower.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:For an athlete to go up against, let alone me.
Speaker B:So tell me, Matt, when you go to these races and you're obviously going there because you want to compete, you've got to be going there with the mindset of, I can Win.
Speaker B:What is it like to go there and have those three guys?
Speaker B:How does that.
Speaker B:Obviously it doesn't change your approach.
Speaker B:It's not going to change how you're going to race.
Speaker A:No, it, it doesn't change how I race really at all depends on whoever's there.
Speaker A:Changes can change the dynamic of the race and I would say all three of those guys can certainly impact a race more than others.
Speaker A:But really for me, having them in the race doesn't really change anything.
Speaker A:I do think though, at the end of the day those three are going to be the podium and it's just a matter of how it plays out.
Speaker A:Who will be on top really, just because of their, their form coming in their skill set.
Speaker A:It's a hilly bike, it's pretty hard run, it's a very leg centric race.
Speaker A:Would you agree?
Speaker B:Yeah, oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:I think that there's a lot of, like a lot of people who, if you haven't raced there, everybody knows about Snow Canyon and Snow Canyon is a legit climb.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:I'm trying to remember six miles, no.
Speaker A:Less than four miles.
Speaker B:Four miles?
Speaker B:Yeah, four miles.
Speaker B:And honestly, three of those miles are challenging and there's only bits of the last two that are pretty particularly steep.
Speaker B:It's so beautiful in the canyon that you almost don't notice how hard it is.
Speaker B:And the rest of the ride is really fair.
Speaker B:That course is not unusually difficult.
Speaker B:It's really all about finishing Snow Canyon.
Speaker B:And honestly, it's a short course.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because it's a six.
Speaker B:It's even more than six miles from when you exit Snow Canyon back into town.
Speaker B:And it is a screaming downhill.
Speaker A:So are you even pedaling on that downhill?
Speaker B:So there's.
Speaker B:The first part of it is downhill, but it's only like 2 or 3% down.
Speaker B:So you're pedaling for the first bit.
Speaker B:But then once you get into the actual real meat of the descent, you can't maybe have a dinner plate on.
Speaker A:Your front or whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah, some of those guys might.
Speaker B:But you.
Speaker B:I couldn't pedal.
Speaker B:I'm.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:But the one thing you do have to worry about is there are openings on the right coming and if it's windy, you still be out pretty early.
Speaker B:So it's usually not windy early.
Speaker B:But for us age groupers, later in the day the wind gusts will sometimes come out of the canyon and catch you from the side.
Speaker B:And that can be a little bit hairy for people who are riding deep wheels and are not used to it.
Speaker B:But I was always able to just stay in arrow the whole way down and man, I think I hit some of my top speeds ever coming down.
Speaker B:And it's such a beautiful road.
Speaker B:It's nice and they have the whole lane open for you.
Speaker B:Have a lane and a shoulder.
Speaker B:It's nice and wide.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker B:You'll see it's really nice.
Speaker B:So you're gonna get a chance to ride it before.
Speaker B:You probably will.
Speaker B:You're there longer.
Speaker A:I will, yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:I'll get up the snow canyon.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:Just riding it sounds amazing, so definitely won't.
Speaker B:It's so nice.
Speaker A:Get up there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it's amazing in terms of how this race, men's race will play out.
Speaker A:I'm gonna have a front row seat so it's gonna be super interesting.
Speaker A:It's looking at the start list.
Speaker A:There's like I talked about those.
Speaker A:We've got a leg heavy race and I think really there is a bit of a front group.
Speaker A:I'll try and be in that front pack coming out of the water.
Speaker A:Typically after that I'll fall back a little bit through the race, but there's guys like Mark Dubrick, Seth Rider, who had a great Oceanside is here.
Speaker A:Your guy Matthew Marquardt is racing coming off the top Texas race.
Speaker A:So he's.
Speaker B:Yeah, Matthew.
Speaker B:I saw his post.
Speaker B:I saw his post talking about having cramping issues.
Speaker B:I didn't realize that had affected him.
Speaker B:And yeah, he was out in Maine looking at getting some soft tissue work.
Speaker A:That's not bullish.
Speaker B:I'm a little disappointed.
Speaker B:He's a doctor to be.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:No, that's probably not going to help.
Speaker B:But look, if it gives him more confidence going into this race, then I'm happy for him.
Speaker B:If you see him, please tell him I said hello.
Speaker A:I will.
Speaker B:I remain a big fan.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, no.
Speaker A:If I'm on the bike with him, I'll be like, Jeff Sankoff says hi.
Speaker B:And then he'll there you go.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But yeah, really there will be a front group.
Speaker A:I think they'll get swallowed up fairly quickly by the guys coming up from behind.
Speaker A:Magnus especially.
Speaker A:He actually swims quite well too.
Speaker A:So he won't be too far off the front group.
Speaker A:And he'll be putting pedal to the metal on that.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's going to have to because he's going to know who's coming from behind.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Depending on how much time he puts on Lionel.
Speaker B:Because Sam obviously can bike and run, but if he comes out with too much of a deficit, can he make it up that's always the question.
Speaker A:Does he swim?
Speaker A:Is he in the same ballpark as Lionel for something?
Speaker B:Nah.
Speaker B:Recent?
Speaker B:Worse.
Speaker B:No, recently he's been swimming a lot worse.
Speaker A:I mean, if they.
Speaker A:Those two get together on that bike course, it's going to be carnage for whoever tries to go with them.
Speaker A:I think really what it comes down to is maybe how much of a gap Magnus has on those two going onto the run, because I think if he goes onto the run with them, I think they will be able to outrun him.
Speaker B:He's.
Speaker B:He's a strong runner, but they're.
Speaker A:He's good.
Speaker B:They're stronger.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So I was looking at the start list and yeah, I'd say a guy like Seth Ryder, if he doesn't lose too much time in the bike, could be a sleeper pick.
Speaker A:The one guy who I was like, oh, yeah, he could break up the big three is Jake Burtwistle from Australia.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Coming in on.
Speaker A:He shouldn't be under the radar, but I just haven't seen much chatter about him going into this race.
Speaker A:But he's been just on a tear lately.
Speaker A:He got podium in that Geelong race.
Speaker B:Made a phenomenal run there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then he got a.
Speaker A:Was it the penalty in Oceanside that almost would have had him if he didn't have it, like, near Lionel on that run.
Speaker A:If he voids the penalty box this time penalty tent, as we all like to do, then he could definitely be the spoiler, I think.
Speaker A:And there's other guys, but really, to me, Jake Burwistle, if you got a parlay or something going, you might want to throw a few shekels on him.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:And Matt, how are you feeling?
Speaker B:I know you've been talking about panic training.
Speaker B:Are you going into this race close to top form or.
Speaker B:I mean, where are you at?
Speaker A:I would not say top form.
Speaker A:And honestly, it's in a crazy months or six months or whatever.
Speaker A:Cause really going back to.
Speaker A:For me, like, I hadn't really put in significant run training since essentially mid October is when I developed this like kind of labral tear in my hip and then had to get a PRP on it.
Speaker A:Kind of recovered from that and then was just about to really get into some good running and then broke the toe.
Speaker A:So for me, I feel like, yeah, coming in, I'm just missing that kind of big.
Speaker A:Cause running can often be, I think, a pretty big component of our overall fitness just because of how high you can get your heart rate up.
Speaker A:And so for me, I feel like I'm missing That little extra step.
Speaker A:But I've.
Speaker A:I'd say I've had a fairly successful panic training stretch here in the last maybe three weeks or so.
Speaker A:I'm excited to race.
Speaker A:Am I the top form?
Speaker A:Absolutely not.
Speaker A:But generally I feel like I can race well, maybe over perform my training sometimes relative to other athletes just having experience racing at a high level, knowing when to push.
Speaker B:Experience counts for something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Although I will say that knowing how hilly this course is generally, I'm not always a hill guy, but I've been doing a lot of gym work.
Speaker A:So I'm really excited to honestly just race and try and race smart.
Speaker A:I think if I do over bike, then that's gonna be a brutal run where if I maybe hold back a little bit on the bike, I'll actually be able to run quite well and maybe pick up a few places for.
Speaker B:Sure that that run is legit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The backside of that run is very difficult.
Speaker A:Do you think that what's more hillier or harder?
Speaker A:The bike or the run?
Speaker B:I think the run is harder, yeah.
Speaker B:The bike.
Speaker B:The bike has.
Speaker B:Apart from Snow Canyon, I just don't think the bike is that hard.
Speaker B:It's got.
Speaker A:I'm gonna ask other people this.
Speaker B:Yeah, ask other people, but.
Speaker B:But I gotta say, like coming out, like you leave transition and it is a two or three mile run, just uphill and there is a 8% grade for a quarter mile.
Speaker B:And then when you get to the top of that hill, you run down and then you do this little out and back little thingy and then you turn it around and then you gotta go back uphill.
Speaker B:I mean it's.
Speaker B:There is a lot of elevation gain on that run.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:And when you come back, when you come back.
Speaker B:Sorry, sorry, Matt.
Speaker B:You come back, you gotta run down that 8% grade and then it's like a 2 mile falls flat downhill back into the town.
Speaker B:That's where Matt, Lionel and Sam had that epic sort of race.
Speaker B:And the thing is, if you're like tired at all or if you've overcooked it, that's where cramping happens because you're running downhill and you get into trouble there.
Speaker A:And this is the thing that I think I'm curious about because I've been doing a lot of gym work trying to really, I don't know, stress, stress the muscles.
Speaker A:So I'm curious to see how my legs respond if they have this muscular endurance, I guess to withstand the repeated bouts of downhill running.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But overall I'd say for me, my.
Speaker A:I have more confidence in my running uphill ability.
Speaker A:Excuse me.
Speaker A:Than biking uphill ability, if that makes sense.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker B:I'm excited to see how you do because I'm using you as a bellwether for my own panic training and I have not had my usual good volume and run up to my own race coming up in Boulder.
Speaker B:I'll be watching you very closely.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:What about on the women's side?
Speaker B:Who's showing up there for the women?
Speaker A:Definitely an interesting race.
Speaker A:It almost seems like a, like an Oceanside rematch against with Paula Finley and Jackie Herring.
Speaker A:They're both back.
Speaker A:Both had a great.
Speaker A:Both had good races in Oceanside and were battling the whole way on the bike and the run.
Speaker A:And so having them back together again, that's a, another interesting dynamic.
Speaker A:We'll see if maybe Jackie can get one over Paula this time.
Speaker B:Anybody else?
Speaker B:Any other good names?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:The other athlete who was supposed to be in Texas got sick like days before, day before, whatever.
Speaker A:It was Chelsea Zadaro.
Speaker A:So we didn't get to see what she did in Texas or what form she had.
Speaker A:I feel like she's very fit.
Speaker B:So she's had success at 70.3, but she tends to do better at Ironman distance.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
Speaker B:But I remember she finished, what, second or third at Oceanside a couple years ago behind Tamara, and I don't see any.
Speaker B:I certainly wouldn't count her out from podium finish, for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, we didn't get to see what, where she was at in Texas to have any kind of reference point.
Speaker A:But I really like where she's at going into this race.
Speaker A:I've talked about this before.
Speaker A:She's got her coach all sorted last year.
Speaker A:There's a bit of chaos there.
Speaker A:She's got her bike sponsor.
Speaker A:She's nailed that bike sponsor.
Speaker A:There's no, no issues there.
Speaker A:So it just seems like it's been a very Dr.
Speaker A:Drama free winter for her.
Speaker A:And when she's fit and healthy and ready to go, she's one of the best athletes in the world.
Speaker A:So I, I, yeah, I could see her, obviously, if she comes off the bike in the neighborhood of these Jackie and Paula, I could see her running them down for sure.
Speaker A:There's a couple.
Speaker A:So for the women, there's also a couple solid swimmers.
Speaker A:Vittoria Lopez, who one of the best swimmers in short course racing the last few years from Brazil.
Speaker A:She'll be ripping it up in the water.
Speaker A:And then also with her, I think out of the water will be Lottie Wilms.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Netherlands.
Speaker A:She's a great front pack.
Speaker A:She's always 70.3 Ironman athlete.
Speaker A:So maybe if she has Vittoria there leading her out instead of her doing the work, you could see them maybe getting away and having a nice gap.
Speaker A:And you never know with more gaps.
Speaker A:I feel like in the women's racing, those kind of breakaway opportunities maybe can yield better results for sure.
Speaker B:Hmm.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:It's gonna be a fun weekend of racing.
Speaker B:It's always a beautiful race to watch, so let's hope for a good.
Speaker B:And we'll be watching you, Matt.
Speaker B:Good luck.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:It's going to be fun.
Speaker B:Let's move from St.
Speaker B:George to across the pond to Roth, Germany, where an article came out just Today on the try24point try247.com website talking about increased age group and protesting at the Roth Triathlon this summer, I believe.
Speaker B:And the article didn't really talk about this, but I am guessing that this is in response to a news article that came out last year and something that I covered pretty extensively on my own podcast, the Tridoc Podcast.
Speaker B:That was a news kind of story that was done by a German newspaper where they surveyed athletes who had hated Roth and they did so anonymously and reported that 1 in 10 admitted to using illicit substances in order to.
Speaker A:Was it 1 in 10?
Speaker A:I thought it was higher than 1 in 10.
Speaker B:Well, I think it was higher than.
Speaker B:It was higher than that.
Speaker B:But when you took out things like asthma medications and things that were actually medically indicated, if you just looked at things like EPO and steroids and growth.
Speaker A:Just straight up cheating.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, it was 1 in 10.
Speaker B:And I personally think that the Roth people probably got wind of that and thought this is a bad look.
Speaker B:And we don't know if this is true.
Speaker B:And if it is true, we should probably do something about it.
Speaker B:That's my guess.
Speaker A:They didn't actually disclose in the article how many more age groupers would be tested.
Speaker A:It just was like, we're going to be doing more testing, which is interesting.
Speaker A:I wonder if saying, even just saying you're going to be doing enhance and increase testing, do you think that could be a deterrent for athletes?
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:If you think you're going to get tested, I wonder how many people suddenly aren't going to show up.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:That is a stain you cannot get rid of.
Speaker B:If you get tested positive, you're done for two years.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker A:Do you think it's.
Speaker A:What's worse, an age group Positive test or a pro positive test, is it?
Speaker B:Well, they're different, right?
Speaker B:If you're.
Speaker B:They're different.
Speaker B:If you test positive as an age grouper, there's the double shame of the fact that you tested positive and the fact that you tested positive as an age grouper.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like you had nothing to gain.
Speaker A:At least if you're pro, what are.
Speaker B:You doing it for?
Speaker A:Yeah, at least if you're pro.
Speaker A:There was the incentives and the accolades not to take anything away from age group athletes efforts and performances.
Speaker A:Like, obviously, in some ways, sometimes it's actually more impressive what you guys do.
Speaker A:One of the things that also came up in the article was that they were using this kind of more innovative dried blood spot testing.
Speaker A:Are you familiar?
Speaker B:Yeah, I am not.
Speaker B:And I looked at that and I wonder what that is, because.
Speaker B:So I used to work in a drug testing lab for horses, of all things racehorses.
Speaker B:And drug testing is a really complex endeavor.
Speaker B:And it's normally done with urine because so many drugs are excreted that way.
Speaker B:In fact, almost all of them are.
Speaker B:And when you have urine, you have a large sample and it's very easy to run it through a lot of machines.
Speaker B:And the machines are incredibly sensitive.
Speaker B:And you can look for or so many things.
Speaker B:We talked about this when we talked about Imagen, that you could find the tiniest, tiniest amounts of substances.
Speaker B:Now, when they do your blood test, when they come to your house and they tested you or Kerastana, are they taking urine and blood or just blood?
Speaker A:It's often both, but especially when I first was getting tested 12, 15 years ago, it was mostly urine.
Speaker A:They've really stepped up, I would say, the blood testing lately, but I do.
Speaker B:Think, like, with the blood testing now is passport stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't think.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker A:I think it's more for just monitoring.
Speaker A:Like you get a baseline and then you can track over time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Your hemoglobin.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So the dried spot blood testing, I think I've actually had this done before.
Speaker B:So I wonder what they're looking for.
Speaker B:Because my sense of these dried spot blood tests is that they are looking for a fixed number of things, whereas with the urine, they run it through a gas chromatograph and they can look for like hundreds of things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So if they're doing the dried spot blood test, they're probably just looking for 10 or 15, but then they're going to miss the things that people.
Speaker B:They'll miss.
Speaker B:Testosterone, for example.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Didn't know that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Stuff like that, which you would pick up on a gas chromatograph but you're not going to pick up on.
Speaker B:On a little test like this.
Speaker B:My guess.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, that's.
Speaker A:I get.
Speaker A:The end of the day, we probably will take more testing.
Speaker B:Oh, 100%.
Speaker B:Whatever they're doing, it's good.
Speaker B:And like you said, just announcing it I think is going to have a deterrent effect.
Speaker B:And listen, people are not that savvy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:If they're going to know, oh, when do I need to stop?
Speaker A:Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker A:The layman isn't the lay cheater, I guess.
Speaker A:Wouldn't know.
Speaker A:I wonder if that would be an interesting study if they had a couple races or something where, you know, maybe before they announced, hey, we're going to be doing enhanced drug testing and then some races they didn't.
Speaker A:And then they do the same amount of testing and see how many athletes they ding.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I think that could be interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, it would be.
Speaker B:But either way, there'd be more testing.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:The funny thing is, like when I talked about the article and the blood and the testing and the increased numbers like Juliette Hockman.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:My.
Speaker B:My co host for the medical Mailbag.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:I just don't think there's that many people test as cheating on the women's side.
Speaker B:And if there are, I don't care.
Speaker B:And I was like, really?
Speaker B:I gotta tell you, I think there's a lot of men cheating and I do care.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So I don't know.
Speaker B:I'll be interested.
Speaker B:I'd be interested in the listeners if there are.
Speaker B:If we have female listeners.
Speaker B:I think we do.
Speaker B:We've had female commenters.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So if we have women who are out there listening, what are your thoughts on this?
Speaker B:I'd love to see your comments in the talk Tempo talks Facebook group.
Speaker B:Let us know if you think women are che.
Speaker B:Again, it's just your opinion.
Speaker B:But more than that, do you care.
Speaker B:Do you care if there are women using substances?
Speaker A:We want to hear.
Speaker A:We want to hear your thoughts.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:All right, we're going to move to our last topic, which is Hayden Wild's wild weekend, which sounds like a bad movie.
Speaker A:Sounds like a fun movie, but that's a fun movie.
Speaker B:Yeah, it turns out it wasn't.
Speaker A:It doesn't end well.
Speaker B:Or.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:A fun or good thing for Hayden Wild.
Speaker B:Hayden Wilde, who was really looking like he was going to have a phenomenal season after finishing second at 70.3 Worlds in New Zealand.
Speaker B:He went on to finish second at the Singapore T100.
Speaker A:He won Singapore.
Speaker B:Oh, sorry.
Speaker B:He won Singapore.
Speaker A:He won that thing?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Won it in style.
Speaker B:And then he goes out and just has.
Speaker B:What was he just like at a 10k race or something?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So the thing was there was a big Asics kind of activation for their new lineup of race flats.
Speaker A:And you'll see these running companies because like nike with their sub 2, like that was a huge activation for the vapor fly that came out.
Speaker A:But with this one, he went to Japan and there was a lot of other athletes also doing these kind of a 5k, 10k.
Speaker A:They're just going for PBS, going for national records to see if, you know, to show that these race flats are the real deal from Asics.
Speaker A:And so he did the 10k and I think it was just a great.
Speaker A:There's probably just a lot of good factors that led to some fast times.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I think his previous personal best before that event or before that endeavor was 29 low, like 29 something fast for all of us.
Speaker A:But for him it didn't really match up.
Speaker A:And he went to this event in Japan and blew the doors off his 10k PB.
Speaker A: or: Speaker B:Jesus.
Speaker A:27 for 10k.
Speaker B:Took two minutes off, essentially.
Speaker A:Essentially, yeah.
Speaker B:What's the shoes?
Speaker A:No, it's not just the shoes.
Speaker A:No, there I think it was a great field too.
Speaker A:They're just good athletes.
Speaker A:And he's very fat also.
Speaker A:But do you know what pace that is?
Speaker A:Per mile?
Speaker A:Per kilometer?
Speaker A:Are you aware?
Speaker B:Well, it's 2:40 something per km.
Speaker A:Yeah, 245 per km.
Speaker A:425 miles for the 6 miles or whatever.
Speaker A:So just a great outing.
Speaker A:An amazing.
Speaker B:What's an Olympic.
Speaker B:What's an Olympic 10,000?
Speaker A:The guys who ran like last year in Paris, they were 26 something like.
Speaker B:He's not that far off.
Speaker A:He's not that far off.
Speaker A:But if you put him like in a race with those guys, you'd be.
Speaker B:Like, oh, yeah, they'd be like.
Speaker B:They'd be done and toweling off and drinking and he'd still be out there for another minute.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Which is insane because considering how fast he's going, he was actually only 10 seconds off the New Zealand national 10k record, to be fair.
Speaker A:So just an incredible run.
Speaker A:Clearly showing he is in incredible shape.
Speaker A:World class shape.
Speaker A:And as a sidebar, we've had these triathlete running side quests with Alex Yi doing that marathon.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Last weekend, the 211 Hayden Wild's 27.
Speaker A:You had Cassand, I think she ran under 16 for that 5K, maybe a couple months ago or a month and a half ago or whatever.
Speaker A:So these guys are just, they're flying so, so great.
Speaker B:I just, it's just mind boggling to me.
Speaker B:All right, so that's the high of his weekend.
Speaker A:That was the high.
Speaker B:And it was, it went downhill.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was crazy because of the time zone change with the results and whatnot.
Speaker A:It was just a weird timing where you saw him post or the post come up like, oh, Hayden Wilde, incredible 10K.
Speaker A:And then I don't know, it seemed like not that long after, maybe like hours after there's an update.
Speaker A:Hayden Wilde, he has been in this or been in this crazy car bike accident and he ended up like, literally it must have been the next day, next morning he was out on the bike during a training ride.
Speaker B:Like reading the litany of injuries, it sounded like Jonas Vingegaard from last year.
Speaker B:I mean, it was bad.
Speaker A:Yeah, he broke what, four ribs, broke his scapula, injured lungs.
Speaker A:So he couldn't even travel after because his lungs maybe punctured them.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, he had what you had.
Speaker B:But his was traumatic, but his was from trauma.
Speaker A:Literally this almost ecstasy to agony just in such a short period of time.
Speaker A:Incredible good and then incredible bad for him.
Speaker A:So that's unfortunate to see him be out for a while.
Speaker A:I'm curious though, like, for you see these injuries, like how long do you think realistically it could take him to come back?
Speaker B:It's hard to say.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So I broke my scapula and it took me a long time.
Speaker B:I am not a superhuman.
Speaker B:Hayden Wild, he's a younger man for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, he's.
Speaker B: But I broke my scapula in: Speaker B:But still, I'm not a professional athlete and I could tell you that breaking my scapula wasn't the issue.
Speaker B:The issue was that it had an impact on my shoulder.
Speaker B:And so I ended up with some adhesive capsulitis and so I couldn't move my shoulder.
Speaker B:And so it took a while before I could get back to swimming properly and everything else.
Speaker B:So it's not necessarily the injury, it's the potential for the follow on and other process and other complications.
Speaker B:Now you look at Jonas Fingergaard, who I mentioned, who was the runner up in the Tour de France last year and he had his horrendous crash in May and he had very similar.
Speaker B:He had multiple broken ribs he had a punctured lung, he had a broken scapula, he had broken hand.
Speaker B:He healed up in time to be able somehow miraculously to be able to compete in the Tour de France.
Speaker B:He was nowhere close to himself.
Speaker B:I say this with knowing the fact that he finished second.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:But he did, he was not able to challenge Pagacha.
Speaker B:I don't know that anybody would have been able to challenge Pugacha, but certainly he did not.
Speaker B:He looked like a shadow of himself and that I think six to eight weeks later.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hayden Wilde's potential is obviously very dramatic in terms of his capacity to heal and his capacity to come back.
Speaker B:Is he likely to come back in exactly the same way?
Speaker B:Probably not so fast because remember he's got a heel which is probably going to take four to six weeks and during that four to six weeks he's going to lose a ton of fitness.
Speaker B:He's got to then regain all of that fitness at the same time that he is not 100% right.
Speaker B:And you're probably looking at a three.
Speaker A:Months from where you did your injury to when you're back to the same.
Speaker B:Fitness and whether or not he started back and whether or not he's back to the same, that's a big stretch.
Speaker B:If anybody's going to be back to about the same, somebody like him.
Speaker B:It's possible.
Speaker B:Most likely three months from now we can expect to see Hayden Wilde on a start line in some version of himself.
Speaker B:Is it going to be running a 26 minute or 27 minute day?
Speaker B:I would personally doubt it because I know how trauma like this, the healing process demands enormous caloric intake and it just depletes your body's resources.
Speaker B:So you know it's going to be, it's going to be a long haul.
Speaker B:But look, I'm sure he's surrounded by a very capable, very sure he'll have.
Speaker A:Great resources, no doubt.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:But do you think like I'm looking at the rib factor and because he's broken these ribs, does that prolong it?
Speaker A:Because you can't, can you breathe?
Speaker A:I don't know if he gets on the trainer or something because of his scapula he still probably couldn't breathe that heavily.
Speaker B:The ribs will heal in the same kind of timeframe.
Speaker B:Now again, everybody is different.
Speaker B:Four broken ribs is worse than one.
Speaker B:So it's, and it depends which ribs.
Speaker B:But the reality is that your ribs, you can't rest them as you're saying, you can't put your ribs in a cast and you can't Just like rest them, because every time you breathe, they're moving.
Speaker B:And the pain from broken ribs is really difficult to manage.
Speaker B:And that's one of the major issues, is you can get complications because you don't breathe deeply because your ribs have been broken.
Speaker B:And so pneumonias or potential for them.
Speaker B:So there's all kinds of issues.
Speaker B:And again, he's young, he's very healthy, he's very fit.
Speaker B:If anybody's gonna recover quickly and recover well, it's gonna be someone like him.
Speaker B:But it is.
Speaker B:The ribs are definitely going to be a factor, and it's going to.
Speaker B:Until they're healed well enough that they don't bother him.
Speaker B:And everybody's different.
Speaker B:I've had a broken rib.
Speaker B:It took probably three weeks before I felt well enough to exercise.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because it hurt every time you did anything with four broken ribs.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Is it traumatic injury versus an overuse injury, do you think there's different guidelines for a trauma injury versus an overuse injury?
Speaker B:So an overuse injury is usually limited to one sort of thing.
Speaker B:You have an overuse injury, it's your knee or your ankle or your shoulder here, it's his ribs, it's his scapula, it's his punctured lung and who knows what else.
Speaker B:And it's like multi systems.
Speaker B:So it's a much bigger deal.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:A little more complicated than you say.
Speaker A:Like, you compare it, like getting a tibial or a tibial stress fracture versus what if you just, I don't know, hit your tibia really hard and it had a break in it, like when the bone heals, Is there a different kind of.
Speaker A:Can you come back quicker or is it just the same?
Speaker B:That's the same.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, it takes the same time.
Speaker B:But the thing with an overuse injury is that you have the opportunity to change whatever it was that caused the injury.
Speaker A:Here.
Speaker B:You do as well.
Speaker B:Just don't crash your bike.
Speaker B:But it's not always.
Speaker B:Not always that easy.
Speaker B:I will say, though, it's.
Speaker B:I'm constantly.
Speaker B:I apologize.
Speaker B:I'm constantly talking about my children.
Speaker B:My children are quite exciting for me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And my daughter, the pole vaulter, she had a leg injury last week, and so I had to restrain her from training for three or four days.
Speaker B:And I don't know, there's this great meme on, on Instagram of Ruth from Ozark, where she's, if you want to stop me, you're going to have to effing kill me.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so that's been in my house because it's like, Lauren, you can't pole vault today.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:If you want to stop me, you're gonna.
Speaker B:I could just imagine Hayden Wilde probably want champing at the bit.
Speaker B:Within a few, you know, probably a few weeks.
Speaker B:Once the pain has subsided, he's going to want to get right back out and do stuff, but he's going to be limited.
Speaker B:This is just.
Speaker A:Yeah, this definitely sounds a little more complicated than I first thought.
Speaker A:With endurance athletes comes.
Speaker A:How is.
Speaker A:Talk about it like we're addicted to, to exercise.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:A hundred percent.
Speaker A:You've got this guy now who's.
Speaker A:I mean, he's.
Speaker A:We're all addicted.
Speaker A:He's addicted.
Speaker A:So you take away.
Speaker A:It's also his livelihood and it's also his live.
Speaker A:I think he'll.
Speaker A:He's not stressing so much about the livelihood.
Speaker A:PC's doing okay.
Speaker A:But I think what's fraught is you guy take these people who go from 100 just to zero because he can't really train now like he.
Speaker A:What can he even do?
Speaker A:Can he walk like he can walk?
Speaker B:If his legs and his pelvis are okay, then he can walk.
Speaker A:But he can't walk up like power walk because of his rib.
Speaker A:So you just, you're not getting those same neurotransmitters, those dopamine hit whatever you want to talk about.
Speaker A:I think this, that's going to be the hardest part for him really.
Speaker B:He's probably getting the endogenous.
Speaker B:Not the endogenous endorphins, the exogenous opioids that are for sure, for a little bit anyways.
Speaker A:You don't overdo those.
Speaker B:That's for sure.
Speaker B:Don't overdo those.
Speaker B:Don't overdo those.
Speaker B:But listen, this is not going to be easy, but like I said, if anybody's capable of coming back from this in a for sure a time frame like I've described, it's going to be someone like Hayden Wilde.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It'll be interesting to watch his progress as he comes back.
Speaker A:And I'm sure we'll be talking about it a bit because it's interesting for all athletes to learn how these people are coming back.
Speaker A:I might have hit him up in the DMS and say, what's your plan?
Speaker A:Just to see if I get some insight because I don't know these guys.
Speaker A:A top pro.
Speaker A:I'm sure he has some good wisdom insight for our listeners.
Speaker B:Okay, so here's a test.
Speaker B:So I'll hit him up in the DMs.
Speaker B:You hit him up in the DM.
Speaker B:We'll see who he answers and I'm guessing it won't be me.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:I know him decently, so you know, I'll take that one on.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Definitely wish him well from yes, all of the.
Speaker A:We all wish.
Speaker B:Yeah, because it's the triathlon world is much more interesting when he's upright and participating.
Speaker B:No doubt that wraps up another episode.
Speaker B:We hope that you've enjoyed being here.
Speaker B:We've certainly enjoyed having you along for the ride.
Speaker B:If you did enjoy what you heard, we hope that you'll leave us a rating and a review wherever you download the program.
Speaker B:It means a lot to us.
Speaker B:It helps us cut through all of the other various triathlon podcasts.
Speaker B:There are many that are out there, so if you liked it, tell a friend, leave a rating and review.
Speaker B:And we'd love to have you back again next week.
Speaker B:Matt, good luck this weekend.
Speaker B:We're really excited to watch you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Looking forward to racing, racing hard and then reporting back on how it all went down.
Speaker B:All right, we'll look forward to it.
Speaker B:Take care.
Speaker B:We'll talk to you next week, everyone.
Speaker A:Good stuff.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks is a part of the Triathlon Performance Hub along with the Tridock Podcast and is produced and edited by me, Jeff Zankoff, the Tridock if you enjoyed the program, we hope that you will leave a rating and review wherever you download the show.
Speaker B:And don't forget to share with a friend.
Speaker B:The music heard at the beginning and the end of the show is rock by Henry Graggart and is used with a Creative Commons license from Pixabay.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks will be back again next week with a fresh new episode.
Speaker B:Until then, keep the rubber side down, keep on training hard.
