Tempo Talks The Return to Kona and Its Implications
This podcast episode elucidates the monumental announcement regarding the Ironman World Championships, which will return to a single-day format in Kona in 2026, a decision that has elicited considerable discourse within the triathlon community. As we dissect the implications of this development, we underscore the duality of perspectives among participants, particularly emphasizing the concerns raised by professional female athletes regarding their competitive opportunities. The episode delves into the impact of this decision on female triathletes, juxtaposing it against the historical context of the race and the community's evolving expectations. Moreover, we explore the significance of the Kona brand within the triathlon landscape, while contemplating the broader ramifications for gender equity in the sport. Throughout our discussion, we invite listeners to engage with these pressing issues, reflecting on the future trajectory of triathlon as it navigates these transformative changes.
Links to topics discussed:
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Transcript
What would happen if you brought together a professional triathlete and producer of one of the most widely read triathlon newsletters.
Speaker B:Together with the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at LifeSport coaching.
Speaker A:Let's say you had the makings of a pretty good podcast.
Speaker B:Welcome to Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:Two perspectives, one sport.
Speaker B:All things triathlon.
Speaker A:Hey man, how's it going?
Speaker B:Good, good, Jeff, all good here.
Speaker B:Big episode on tap.
Speaker B:I don't really even know.
Speaker A:I know I'm sitting here.
Speaker A:It's what I Wednesday and we have a great show on tap.
Speaker A:We've got a bunch of stuff to talk about.
Speaker A:I've just thrown it all out.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:We had a list, topic list.
Speaker A:We may get to one or two of the things on that list.
Speaker A:Something tells me it will be filed away because the world of triathlon just got turned upside down onto its head this morning.
Speaker B:Jeff, what's the big news?
Speaker B:Just tell us.
Speaker A:Well, the big news is that you texted me last night and said that a little birdie whispered in your ear that there would be big news coming today.
Speaker A:And this is the benefits I have of being connected to you.
Speaker A:I get all of these scoops and that scoop is going to be something about 70.3 world's announcement and that it might just be tied to Kona.
Speaker A:The little birdie turned out to be accurate and why don't you sum it up and then we'll dive in because there's a lot to talk about.
Speaker B:My my good source, he let me know that there's going to be a big announcement, big Iron man announcement tomorrow.
Speaker B:And what's happening now?
Speaker B:They announced it this morning.
Speaker B:Ironman.
Speaker B:It went out on social media everywhere.
Speaker B:The return to Kona.
Speaker B:It is the return to Kona.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B: , they have announced that in: Speaker B:Jeff, where were you when you saw this announcement or heard of this?
Speaker A:I could hear the rumbling through the stratosphere because of course the triathlon world, not one to take anything like this lying down, went absolutely apoplectic and I got the news from you this morning.
Speaker A:I was at work and a little vibration on the phone came through and I stopped what I was doing to immediately check it because I knew it had to be whatever it was you had told me about.
Speaker A:And sure Enough there it was laid out on my screen.
Speaker A:And I don't know, I guess my first reaction.
Speaker A:My first reaction was, I guess not hugely surprised because we.
Speaker A:You had mentioned that this was probably in the works yesterday.
Speaker A:When you first told me that this was probably going to happen, I gotta say I felt a little bit sad because I was there the first year they split the race into two days.
Speaker A:It was two days in Kona.
Speaker A:You, you were there and I was there.
Speaker A: It was: Speaker B:Was that?
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:22.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:22, right.
Speaker A:22 is the first split year.
Speaker A:And I was there and I raced on the day.
Speaker A:They had several men's age groups at the same time as the women raced.
Speaker A:So that was the day I raced.
Speaker A:And it was great.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Was really nice to be able to see all the men race one day and then see all the women race the other day.
Speaker A:And since then it's because the 70.3 worlds.
Speaker A:That way we have the men racing one day, the women racing the other day.
Speaker A:I have said for many years that the women deserve their own day.
Speaker A:I think that they have established themselves as pros, they have established themselves as age groupers.
Speaker A:The one issue was of course, the numbers.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:We have a very small minority of age group women in Ironman ranks.
Speaker A:We just saw that again in the recent numbers that have come out.
Speaker A:And that has been an issue.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I don't think we need.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Too much.
Speaker B:We talked about it before, but I think in the end with Ironman's data, It was like 18 to 20% women versus 80% men in these fields.
Speaker B:Yeah, these full distance fields for sure.
Speaker A:And that's a big deal.
Speaker A:That's really tough.
Speaker A:It makes it hard to fill out the day.
Speaker A:And listen, Kona was markedly more popular.
Speaker A:It was easier to fill those slots than it was to fill the knee slots.
Speaker A:Especially when the women were racing there.
Speaker A:They were essentially giving them to people who only race 70.3.
Speaker A:And that was really unfortunate.
Speaker A:It was not.
Speaker A:It was too bad that we didn't see more women want to take those slots.
Speaker A:And it was also nice to see the Ironman World Championship raced on a different course.
Speaker A:It favored a different kind of athlete.
Speaker A:And it would have also been nice to see it rotate over time.
Speaker A:We'll never get to see that now.
Speaker A:And no, they do a good job.
Speaker B:With the 70.3 worlds with.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And that's great.
Speaker B:I think what was interesting about this press release is that Iron man kind of kept trotting out the data.
Speaker B:I know Part of it was basically they were saying, you know, we listen to the community because they did extensive surveys of athletes, pro athletes, age group athletes, community members, and what people were telling them.
Speaker B:I think I listened to the Pro Tribe News podcast that they did with the CEO and what he said was that 2/3 of men who were surveyed voted for a single day race, and about 60% of women also voted for a single day race.
Speaker B:So by doing this, it absolves them a little bit of the decision because this is what they can say.
Speaker B:This is what the community wants, the athletes wanted.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I wonder if that would have broken down the same way amongst the pros, because let's face it, it doesn't affect the top age group women that much, but it really affects the pro women.
Speaker A:That's who is impacted the most.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:The other people who are going to be impacted, of course, are the age group women who now won't have access to Kona the way they did previously.
Speaker A:It depends on where you are and how you view that.
Speaker A:But that.
Speaker A:But I think the bigger question to me is really the pro women.
Speaker A:You said you spoke to some folks.
Speaker A:Did you get.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I talked to a couple athletes and both of them were pretty negative on not Kona, obviously.
Speaker B:I think everybody.
Speaker B:Big macro view.
Speaker B:I think everybody's happy to have the World Championships, have everyone together in Kona.
Speaker B:I think there's just disappointment on not having the two days so women can have their own day and just the ramifications for age group and pro women of being enmeshed with the men.
Speaker B:I think there's disappointment in that.
Speaker B:And really fundamentally, like we talked about before, we came on with Sarah Gross's post where she talked about not having as many women on the start line.
Speaker B:And who knows, we can get to this too, but who knows how many slots will actually be awarded in the end.
Speaker B:But it appears to be the case that women will have less slots available than men.
Speaker A:Oh, it has to be.
Speaker A:They're talking about.
Speaker A:They're talking about 3,000 starters.
Speaker A: : Speaker A:And to add another 400 is going to be insane.
Speaker A:The Queen K is a fiasco already.
Speaker A:It is a complete draft fest already.
Speaker A:Kona is not really the most fun to race as an age grouper because of the draft packs.
Speaker A:And you've raised it for.
Speaker A:Oh, it's just awful.
Speaker A:It's so bad that that out and back on the.
Speaker A:Gosh.
Speaker B:At the beginning of the ride.
Speaker A:Names.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:At the beginning of the ride.
Speaker A:You do this out and back on a pretty narrow two lane road and it is so congested.
Speaker A:And then you get out on the Queen K and it's just draft pack after draft pack and it's just awful.
Speaker A:And what they did to try and ameliorate that and try and mitigate those problems was they delayed the start for many of the age groups and tried to really spread it out.
Speaker A:And so the last time I was there I was starting at what something like 8, 45 or 9 o'clock.
Speaker A:It was so late when I started and I was heading out.
Speaker A:I remember I was getting to Waikoloa and the pro men were on the way back.
Speaker A:So it was like.
Speaker A:And then I started seeing all these age groupers also on the way back as I was not even getting to the turn off from the highway.
Speaker A:Really crazy how strung out.
Speaker A:And even as strung out as it was because there were so many athletes, it's just the way Kona is.
Speaker A:You know, most of the athletes swim very similarly and then they bike very similarly.
Speaker A:So you're going to end up with this bunching together.
Speaker A:Getting another 500 on there is just going to make it that much worse.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they made it clear they are not going to be able to do two days of racing probably ever.
Speaker A:Kona can't handle it.
Speaker B:No, the community.
Speaker A:Kona cannot handle it.
Speaker A:The community doesn't even like us being there one day a year.
Speaker A:When I was there last time, the hostility was really intense.
Speaker B:Although that was a psychotic time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Having essentially four days full gas with the racing plus the packet pickup, all that craziness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that was an outlier.
Speaker B:I think the community.
Speaker B:I'm sure it'll probably end up back to normal relationship.
Speaker B:I know Ironman tries to endear the athletes to the community and really remind people to be respectful.
Speaker B:Athletes are also.
Speaker A:Yeah, athletes.
Speaker A:Listen, listen, listen.
Speaker A:The athletes have some blame, but I will say the community's hostility is quite over the top.
Speaker A:I've been there twice.
Speaker A:I've been run off the road several times.
Speaker B:Yikes.
Speaker A:Behaving as a very responsible someone who's well aware of how dangerous it is to ride a bike on the road.
Speaker A:I've been riding very responsibly.
Speaker A:I never throw any trash.
Speaker A:I never do anything.
Speaker A:And people there are.
Speaker A:They're just for one week a year.
Speaker A:I just don't understand why knowing how much money we bring to the community too, it's.
Speaker A:And knowing how much Ironman does, it's a little bit strange.
Speaker A:But anyways look, it's great.
Speaker A:The athletes are going to get what they want, but that's not going to stop them from complaining because like I said to you, I think the thing that triathletes do the best, they swim, they bike, they run, they complain.
Speaker A:And they complained about the two days.
Speaker A:And now all the things that they complained about leading up to the splitting of the race, they're just going to go back to complaining about again.
Speaker B:They Talk about having 3,000 potentially up anywhere from 2,500 to 3,000 athletes competing on the day.
Speaker B:What do you actually think is feasible?
Speaker A:The pier is pretty packed and they made room for an extra hundred.
Speaker A: Last time there was: Speaker A:They made room for an extra 100 by like stretching things out just a little bit down the pier.
Speaker A:And that kind of worked.
Speaker A:But gosh, to add another 400 bikes.
Speaker A:I have no idea.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:But again, I don't even know why you'd want to.
Speaker A:It just becomes so difficult.
Speaker A:It is so hard to envision that course being able to handle that many.
Speaker B:More people without 400 times.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:A thousand.
Speaker B:What does that equal?
Speaker A:400 times a thousand?
Speaker B:Yeah, whatever the entry fee is, what is that equal?
Speaker B:Yeah, we'll squeeze some extra bikes in there.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:Then it becomes again, it's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's where it's less about the athlete experience and more about the profit motivation, which I 100% understand they are in it for.
Speaker A:Listen, get that.
Speaker A:They also will make the argument that by accommodating more athletes, they can accommodate more women.
Speaker A:They could do all of those things and that's fine, but there's going to be downsides and then they have to deal with the repercussions of that.
Speaker B:And big picture though, do you think this going back to Kona is the right decision?
Speaker A:Look, I'm pretty agnostic to the whole thing, mostly because I've done my two Kona races.
Speaker A:I was not doing an Ironman again in the near future, even in the midterm future.
Speaker A:So I hadn't really given it a lot of thought.
Speaker A:I didn't really have a lot invested in this emotionally or in any other way.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I'm not happy for the pro women.
Speaker A:I've spoken with several top age group women who are thrilled.
Speaker A:They think that this is great.
Speaker A:They want the race to be like this because of the Kona factor.
Speaker B:Just being able to go to Kona and check that box is that kind.
Speaker A:Of, I think, the Kona factor.
Speaker A:But also being able to race with the men and Then also just the fact that they will see, they like the qualifications being more difficult, and it wasn't so difficult for a while there, and they want the qualifications to be more difficult.
Speaker A:Now, this is a small subset of people, obviously, I think there's a lot of women who have really enjoyed having access to the Kona experience, and they're not going to be so happy.
Speaker A:Understandably.
Speaker B:It's one of those things where big picture, I really do think this is ultimately good for the sport.
Speaker B:The reality is the Kona, we know the Kona brand, the Kona mystique.
Speaker B:There's nothing else that touches it, really.
Speaker A:It's true.
Speaker B:Like when you're training, when you were coming up into the sport, when you talk to folks who didn't really know much about triathlon, were they still saying, hey, are you training for that race in Hawaii?
Speaker A:Well, that was my own experience mentioned to me.
Speaker A:Triathlon.
Speaker A:I said, oh, no, I'm never going to do that race in Hawaii, because that's all I knew.
Speaker A:And when I had done several Ironmans, people would still ask, oh, the one in Hawaii.
Speaker A:So, yes, I get it.
Speaker A:Of course, everybody in triathlon knows about Kona.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker A:Not even inside of triathlon.
Speaker B:Yeah, outside of triathlon.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:Everybody knows.
Speaker A:I don't diminish that, and I don't.
Speaker A:I don't pretend that's not a huge factor in all of this.
Speaker A:But I also think it's important to recognize the real, the very real and very visceral limitations that it has, that it puts on, especially the pro women, when you put everybody together.
Speaker A:And I have no idea how they're going to address it.
Speaker A:I really don't.
Speaker A:I do not know.
Speaker A:He's.
Speaker A:He has said, Scott Larue has said, we're going to try and make this better for the pro women.
Speaker A:We're going to try and accommodate their concerns.
Speaker A:And I don't know.
Speaker A:I just don't know how they're going to do that.
Speaker A:In 70.3 where on a date, on an average race where the men and women race together, do you hear a lot of the same complaints from the pro women?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's always complaints about men slotting in or just like trying to pass them and then just sitting up and getting in their way, breaking their rhythm.
Speaker B:I personally, obviously have never dealt with this, but I could imagine it'd be incredibly frustrating to deal with that, especially when you're a pro and you've invested a lot and I mean, everybody invests a lot to.
Speaker B:To do these races.
Speaker B:But I guess the idea of being a pro maybe is having an elevated experience without these kind of distractions, but ultimately finding that balance with having enough athletes on the course paying for these races and then having these pro races alongside, which probably aren't making a dent in the bottom line really for Ironman.
Speaker A:Well, it has to extend beyond just the private Porta Potties in transition.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think about Chelsea Sedaro winning her race that first time, the 22, the Women's Day in Kona.
Speaker A:It was such a big deal and she went, when she made her speech at the awards ceremony, she just went at great lengths to talk about what a big thing that was for the women to finally have their day.
Speaker A:And now it's.
Speaker A:Now listen, it's been taken away, but I don't think you can understate the importance of the fact that according to Ironman, at least over 60% of the women wanted it to be taken away.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Quote unquote or whatever.
Speaker B:Like they.
Speaker B:People said in the survey that they wanted this and really.
Speaker B:No, of course they don't want to have their race obstructed.
Speaker B:They don't want to have this frustrating situation.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker A:It just all goes together though.
Speaker A:It's one big soup.
Speaker B:And in terms of these, this kind of.
Speaker B:So what the CEO was talking about with the proportionate representation between the men's and the women's age groups, what do you think that's going to look like, numbers wise?
Speaker A:The way it looked traditionally was if there was 75% men and 25% women at any given race, that was how the slots would be allocated proportionally based on signups.
Speaker A:If it's not going to be that way, then it's technically not proportionate.
Speaker A:So I don't.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I have no idea how it's going to look.
Speaker A:I really don't know.
Speaker A:If it's skewed in some way to favor getting more female participation, then it won't necessarily be proportionate.
Speaker A:It'll be.
Speaker A:I don't know what the word is.
Speaker A:I don't know how to call it.
Speaker A:I don't have a.
Speaker A:Necessarily have a problem with it.
Speaker A:But I can imagine some of the men who are looking for slots might philosophically have an issue with it.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know how to feel about it.
Speaker B:It's interesting because I actually looked into the numbers from that Kona 20, 22, the one kind of fever dream, Kona two days you were there and it was Interesting because for.
Speaker B:I think they had just over 4, 200 athletes.
Speaker B: at finishers, I think it was: Speaker B:Should probably pull up the digits.
Speaker B: But essentially you had: Speaker B:So really?
Speaker A:Yeah, so about 75%.
Speaker B:Is that 75%?
Speaker A:I need to just under 75% men.
Speaker B:But essentially I think it, it ended up being like 30% of the total field is women.
Speaker B: But that's: Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B: re talking about a maximum of: Speaker B:Will if.
Speaker B: can squeeze a little more in: Speaker B: is getting pretty close to: Speaker B:So it feels like the demand is there to almost have equal slots.
Speaker B:Am I totally wrong here?
Speaker A:The demand is there, but again, we get into, then we start getting into, is it equal, is it equitable, is it fair?
Speaker A:There's all these.
Speaker A:I am not an expert in this.
Speaker A:No, neither am I.
Speaker A:I have no stake in this because I am not going for it.
Speaker A:So I don't really.
Speaker A:I'm very agnostic to this.
Speaker A:What, what I really would love to see is more female participants in Ironman in general.
Speaker A:And then this becomes a moot point because if we had 50, 50 at all the Ironmans, then we could just give 50% of the slots.
Speaker A:We don't have 50, 50.
Speaker A:So how to give the slots and how to make it and then I get bogged down now.
Speaker A:Equitable, equal, fair.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know which one.
Speaker A:And it depends who you talk to.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:If you talk to Sarah Gross, she'll be very clear.
Speaker A:The only fair way to do this is to make it 50 50.
Speaker A:But is that really fair if the women's field at Ironman events is Nowhere close to 50, 50.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker B:Yeah, I just was looking at it from a pure, like numbers standpoint and depending on how many spots they have on the pier or whatever.
Speaker B:To me it seemed like, oh, like it's not terribly far off that 50, 50, the whole qualifying nature.
Speaker B:And in the interview that I listened to with Pro Try News and the CEO, he was basically saying there are potentially going to be like carve outs for getting more women in.
Speaker B:But even then I don't know.
Speaker B: erts, we could see upwards of: Speaker B:And then you're getting pretty close to an equal amount.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't think I'm crazy here.
Speaker A:No, it's not crazy and I don't have a problem with it.
Speaker A:But I think you will hear people who have a problem with it.
Speaker B:And obviously it's been for many years.
Speaker B:Like, obviously in the past, they did it, that proportional representation.
Speaker B:I just come from the world triathlon world, I guess the ITU world, where for my whole life doing this sport, there's always been equal spots or equal opportunity to have a full women's and men's race start.
Speaker B:Like, it's never been like, oh, there's less women competing, so they're going to have less spots at the World Championship.
Speaker B:There's less women competing, there's going to be less spots.
Speaker B:At the Olympics, it's always been equal.
Speaker B:So for me, it's hard to understand why they wouldn't have equal or close enough to equal slots and find a way.
Speaker A:I would love to see 50, 50 at Kona, but I would love to see that based on the fact that there were more women participating in Ironman in general.
Speaker A:I would for sure.
Speaker A:Everything, everything that Ironman is doing to try and bring more women in.
Speaker A:All of a lot of the ideas that were mentioned to you as comments to your question in the Tempo News a couple of weeks ago, I'd love to see those things done to try and bring more women into the sport.
Speaker A:And then this whole thing goes away and then we just have slots allocated based on 50, 50.
Speaker A:The fact that we have 50, 50.
Speaker B:What if.
Speaker A:Even if it was closer.
Speaker B: ing almost like maybe this in: Speaker B: say, hey, we're going to have: Speaker B:Let's fill them.
Speaker B: next year we're going to have: Speaker B:And then we're gonna try in 20, 30 or whatever the magic number is to have equal slots, like even just signaling that.
Speaker B:Do you think that could help get people, more people interested in racing the World Championships or create more demand for it?
Speaker A:Well, it'll get more people racing the world champion.
Speaker A:I don't think there's any problem.
Speaker A:Get to commit to doing Kona.
Speaker A:I don't think there's any problem in generating interest.
Speaker A:The problem is generating interest in Ironman as a sport in general.
Speaker A:Just getting women to participate and for all of the reasons that we've touched on, it's societal.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:It cuts very deep and it's very complex.
Speaker A:And until we're willing to address the gaps between genders and allow for more women to be able to participate in the sport, especially at the Ironman level, which requires such a huge commitment, I don't think we're going to see that now.
Speaker A:If you ladder up the slots and you don't even have to do that, you could jump to 50, 50 tomorrow.
Speaker A:And you'll fill them.
Speaker A:You'll fill them.
Speaker A:There's no problem getting the.
Speaker A:Look, we filled them every year.
Speaker A:The only time we haven't filled them is when the women race in Nice.
Speaker A:And that wasn't because they didn't want to race the world championships.
Speaker A:It's because they didn't want to race in Nice.
Speaker B:I'm just.
Speaker B:For me, it's just hard to wrap my head around.
Speaker B:I just feel like the demand is there and maybe I'm just totally out to launch, but to me, it's just.
Speaker B:If you just say, hey, we're doing 50, 50, who knows how many slots are going to have.
Speaker B: ying this like, they may have: Speaker B:Let's say they just do it.
Speaker B:50, 50.
Speaker B:Like, I just don't see how they're going to have a problem filling those slots.
Speaker A:It's not a problem with filling them.
Speaker A:It's a problem with.
Speaker A:It's a problem with.
Speaker B:Is it the quality of athlete?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Is that the problem?
Speaker A:No, the problem is that fair.
Speaker A:Is it fair to have 50, 50 when the sport is.
Speaker A:Right now, I think it's 75% men who participate.
Speaker B:I would say, like in.
Speaker B:Yeah, let's go with that.
Speaker B:It's probably, but let's go with that.
Speaker A:So is it fair to give 50% of the slots at the World championship to women when there's 75% of the slots at every race are men?
Speaker A:Again, I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know the answer to that question.
Speaker B:Again.
Speaker B:I go back to my Olympic.
Speaker B:On the Olympic start line like.
Speaker B:But I can't think how many more people men were chasing those Olympic spots versus women.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, they were able to fill those slots.
Speaker B:Because there was enough athletes and there was a somewhat of more of a discrepancy in the depth, but the demand was there.
Speaker B:And at the end of the day, if I'm a corporation, if I'm Ironman, everybody's money's green.
Speaker B:If they can fill those slides, everybody's money green.
Speaker A:I totally see what you're saying.
Speaker A:I do think it's a false equivalency, though, because you're talking about a much smaller number.
Speaker A:It's a really interesting argument, though, and it might be the right argument.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm not sure.
Speaker B:They've already done the whole nice experiment.
Speaker B:It's like, why don't you just do another experiment, say we're doing equal slots and then see what that gives.
Speaker B:And then, hey, we tried it.
Speaker B:It didn't work.
Speaker B:Let's do something else.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Well, it's not that it won't work.
Speaker A:It's not that it won't work.
Speaker A:I think that you will.
Speaker A:Again, it depends what you consider as success.
Speaker A:Will you fill slots?
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker A:Are you going to piss off a lot of people?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:You will make a lot of people, I think, angry.
Speaker A:Now, is that anger justifiable?
Speaker A:That's the part I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker A:There probably is no true answer to this, but I would love to hear what our listeners think.
Speaker A:I know they have thoughts because everybody in triathlon has thoughts on this.
Speaker A:I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker A:And I hate the fact that it is being boiled down to who gets the slots.
Speaker A:Because it shouldn't be about that.
Speaker A:It really shouldn't.
Speaker A:To me, it should be about celebrating the women on their own day, which we were doing for a while there, that would be ideal.
Speaker A:We can't do that now.
Speaker A:And so now it's become this whole sort of stew of who gets to participate.
Speaker A:And I think that's really unfortunate.
Speaker A:That's not what this should be about.
Speaker B:Do you think this issue is going to linger for a while and Iron man and it's not going to go away?
Speaker A:Hey, nah, listen, any publicity is good publicity, right?
Speaker A:So it's not going anywhere.
Speaker A:This will be talked about for the next two years.
Speaker A:Yes, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then once Kona is, you know that the entire day of the race of.
Speaker A:In.
Speaker A:Of Kona in 26, the entire conversation is going to be around the fact that the women are racing at the same time as the men.
Speaker A:That's all you're going to hear about.
Speaker A:And if by chance Something happens where one of the lead women gets tangled up.
Speaker A:Not tangled up or anything, but, you know, if something.
Speaker A:Yeah, if something happens where an age grouper is somehow impeding one of the pro women, it will be talked about and rightly it should be talked about.
Speaker A:It should be called out.
Speaker B:It's definitely something that they're going to have to figure out.
Speaker B:It does sound like they talked about making changes to the start, to the pro start.
Speaker B:So again, we don't really have details on that, so we can only speculate.
Speaker A:There's only so many things they can do.
Speaker B:True.
Speaker A:You could send them off a half an hour ahead, I guess that's.
Speaker A:But then you'd be sending the age groupers off really late.
Speaker A:But I don't know.
Speaker A:We'll see.
Speaker A:I don't think that we should lose sight of the fact that Nice was a tremendous host for the Ironman.
Speaker B:Pour one out for nice.
Speaker A:Great course.
Speaker A: ionships when it was there in: Speaker A:That might be a bit much, I think.
Speaker A:I love the fact that 70.3 worlds rotates around the world and I'm not sure that it needs to go back there three times in six years.
Speaker A:But the idea of going back to Nice for me is an exciting one.
Speaker A:I loved racing there and I would be thrilled to go back if I.
Speaker B:Was it like a pretty qualify, pretty hilly course when you race.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's like a 10k climb.
Speaker A:And it wasn't the climb that was so difficult, honestly, for me, it was the descent, the admirer.
Speaker A:It was just a really like if you didn't care and you just were willing to take your life in your hands.
Speaker A:It was a great descent.
Speaker A:But I was.
Speaker A:I have a job, I have a family.
Speaker B:We don't need to take those risks.
Speaker A:I was not interested in those risks and so I did not.
Speaker A:I did great on the climb.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:But once I got to the summit and I started descending, I was potentially more cautious than others.
Speaker B:I mean, you did see it appeared to be less demand for those Nice years, real or for those niece races these world champions had anything to do with that.
Speaker A:I think the course definitely had something to do with it, but I think the bigger issue was just everybody still tied up in the whole Kona mystique and they weren't willing to give it a chance.
Speaker A:And I think it had this gone on for longer.
Speaker A:I think eventually it would have, probably.
Speaker A:But the other thing is, I think the problem was tying it to Nice.
Speaker A:I think the better idea would have been to rotate it like every world, so every year choose a different venue and have either the men or women go to a different place and do that, do it there.
Speaker A:Ironman has so many race spots.
Speaker A:It wouldn't have been that hard to.
Speaker A:Can you imagine Canary Islands one year.
Speaker B:Another, they could do some crazy places.
Speaker B:And a lot of places would want to have a race like that.
Speaker B:There would be a lot of great subsidies, I'm sure, from these cities.
Speaker B:When you went to Nice, do you think it was in some ways surely more accessible than Kona?
Speaker A:That's what a lot of people in Europe felt.
Speaker A:Of course, I'm not sure for us.
Speaker A:I'm not sure for us it's any more accessible.
Speaker A:The cost of getting there and the cost of lodging and everything else is probably pretty similar to like Kona.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Listen, it's not cheap to fly to France.
Speaker A:It's not cheap to.
Speaker A:To stay in France.
Speaker B:And yeah, if you're a female age group athlete from Europe, you are not stoked right now because I feel like there's a lot of positives from that, that knee situation.
Speaker A:The people who are serious about this are probably fine.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But I do, I do know that there was a lot of.
Speaker A:That was one of the things when we talk about going back to the complaints that existed before the rotating world Championship, one of those complaints was athletes in Europe felt that it was prohibitively expensive for them to always have to go to Hawaii.
Speaker A:And having the race in Europe every couple of years per gender made it a lot more affordable and a lot more accessible.
Speaker A:And that's now gone.
Speaker B:So, yes, yeah, Kona is.
Speaker B:It's not the cheapest place to go to for.
Speaker B:I feel like a lot of people in the world maybe, obviously for North Americans, probably cheaper.
Speaker A:And Kona and Kona itself.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:Of all the places in Hawaii, Kona.
Speaker A:Forgive me if you're a lover of Kona, but I mean, it's Kona's.
Speaker A:It's okay.
Speaker A:It's got a lot of redeeming things to it, but it's not my favorite place in Hawaii.
Speaker A:And as we've said, the community is not exactly the most welcoming.
Speaker A:So they certainly know.
Speaker A:They certainly know and good for them.
Speaker A:They definitely extract their pound of flesh during Ironman month in terms of prices.
Speaker B:And yeah, there's certain supply benefits.
Speaker B:And again, in this podcast, the CEO is having conversations with the governor, with the mayor, so there's clearly synergies there.
Speaker B:If the politicians are jumping on board, I think everybody knows.
Speaker B:I think everybody wins in the situation.
Speaker B:It's obviously the folks there aren't super excited, but there's got to be a significant economic benefit to going to Kona to be in Kona for those folks.
Speaker A:Yeah, 100%.
Speaker A:Any finishing thoughts here?
Speaker A:Any final thoughts?
Speaker A:I feel like we've talked this one out.
Speaker B:I think really like I said, big picture, good for the sport.
Speaker B:The brand of Kona supersedes anything else in the sport by an incredible margin.
Speaker B:You don't have to explain now when people are like, oh, are you doing the Ironman World Championships, the Hawaii Ironman?
Speaker B:You don't have to say, oh no, I'm going to niece to see.
Speaker B:There's just none of that.
Speaker B:I think it's important, especially in such what we live in this fragmented media environment.
Speaker B:Having any kind of rock solid or legacy brand that people, that most people know, I think that's really important.
Speaker B:And going back to Kona just cements that for triathlon and it just cuts into the mainstream really.
Speaker A:And I think a lot of these other things will work themselves out and they will be tempest in a teapot in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:I think some of them are probably not.
Speaker A:I think the pro women have legitimate beefs and we'll have to see how that gets worked out.
Speaker A:But I think that a lot of the other stuff is we're, like I said, we're very good at finding the things that bother us and yelling about them really loudly.
Speaker A:And I get it to a point.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I think that at the end of the day they'll work out.
Speaker A:And you know what, if you're good enough to get to Kona, you're going to enjoy the experience, no doubt.
Speaker B:Does this make you want to have another go at Kona?
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker A:I mean, I've wanted to.
Speaker A:I've wanted to try and get back to the Ironman distance, but it's just not feasible family.
Speaker A:But if it ever does become feasible again, I would definitely consider it.
Speaker A:This wouldn't make me more likely though.
Speaker A:No, I actually.
Speaker A:I actually thought nice was a better course for me because I'm a good climber and Kona's pretty flat.
Speaker A:I also don't do particularly well in that heat like the energy lab.
Speaker A:I still have PTSD about the.
Speaker A:That run.
Speaker B:Can't even imagine.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just awful.
Speaker A:For me, the nice course was a much better suited course for me.
Speaker A:And I had thought that if I did get back, I would be fine going to do that course but not to be.
Speaker A:Instead I'll do it as a 70.3 worlds.
Speaker A:If again I should be so fortunate to qualify.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker B:Locked in.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:We did have a good agenda.
Speaker A:We didn't get to touch on Ironman Texas, but we will.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week.
Speaker A:We'll talk about that.
Speaker A:And we have a few other things to chat about as well.
Speaker A:Thanks for being here.
Speaker A:I hope you enjoyed the program.
Speaker A:We would love to hear your thoughts on all of this.
Speaker A:There is a lot to talk about.
Speaker A:So please, if you haven't already joined the Talk Tempo Talks private group on Facebook, take a look, search for it, Join Answer the easy questions.
Speaker A:We'll get you in there and you can leave your comments and thoughts there.
Speaker A:Alternatively, you could drop us a line on our emails or Instagram.
Speaker A:We'd love to hear from you, Matt.
Speaker A:It's great chatting with you.
Speaker A:We'll be back next week.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker B:This is a good one.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker A:Love Foreign Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub and is produced and edited by me, Jeff Zankoff.
Speaker A:You can join the Talk Tempo Talks private Facebook group on Facebook by searching for Tempo Talks and answer the easy questions.
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Speaker A:Tempo Talks will be back again next week with the new episode.
Speaker A:The music heard at the beginning and the end of the program is Rock by Henry Draggert.
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