Mastering Performance: Insights from an Olympian and Exploring the Future of Triathlon: Race Rangers and Beyond
A compelling exploration of the recent 70.3 Boise triathlon, wherein co-host Matthew Sharp reflects on his experience as a competitor. The narrative delves into his race strategy, the challenges of competing at high altitudes, and the intricacies of the swim, bike, and run segments. Matthew's candid admission of the physical demands he faced, particularly during the swim and bike, exemplifies the mental fortitude required of elite athletes. He articulates the significance of pacing and the psychological aspects of competition, particularly how the presence of fellow competitors can influence performance. The conversation transitions to a broader discussion on what constitutes an optimal race location, emphasizing community involvement and accessibility. Through this lens, the duo evaluates the merits of Boise as a race destination, noting the enthusiastic triathlon community and the potential for future events in the area. The session culminates with an analysis of drafting rules within triathlon, a pertinent issue that affects race integrity and athlete performance, showcasing the complexities of balancing competitive spirit with fair play.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
Welcome to Tempo Talks, a show that brings you analysis of the biggest stories in triathlon training, tips to make you a better athlete and breakdowns of the latest science and performance.
Speaker A:I'm Matthew Sharp, an olympian in triathlon, 70.3 champion and co founder of the Tempo News.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeff Sankoff, the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at Life Sport Coaching.
Speaker B:Our goal, inform and entertain two perspectives.
Speaker B:One sport, all things triathlon.
Speaker B:Now let's get into it.
Speaker A:All right everyone.
Speaker A:We are back with another episode of Tempo Talks.
Speaker A:I'm your co host Matthew Sharp, here with the other co host, I would say my better half of the co host.
Speaker A:Thank God.
Speaker B:Thanks.
Speaker B:Thanks Matt.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And we're coming a little bit later on this Friday.
Speaker B:We were awaiting Matt and Kirsten's return from their brief sojourn, as I put it.
Speaker B:Where were you, Matt?
Speaker B:Where did you go for a few days?
Speaker A:Yeah, we took a little vacay, reset, whatever down to Salida, which is a mountain town, man.
Speaker A:It's three hour drive from Boulder and yeah, beautiful place.
Speaker A:Yeah, a little cooler there up in the mountains.
Speaker A:Just a really nice.
Speaker A:Yeah, nice getaway.
Speaker A:I told you before I was expecting maybe a little more rugged, like more rustic, rustic, underdeveloped mountain town and definitely not the case.
Speaker A:It was a beautiful spot, definitely like a thriving community.
Speaker A:I looked at the real estate and it was basically on par with Boulder.
Speaker A:So yeah, not a hidden gem.
Speaker B:A little, little discouraging when you're thinking to yourself, oh, I know I'm going to go off the beaten path.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker B:Find something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, not truly on the beaten path but it was nice.
Speaker A:Definitely a good little couple days away, some hiking, nothing too crazy, just enjoying being out in nature.
Speaker A:And I think I wrote in the newsletter today consider myself a decent athlete but it's hilarious.
Speaker A:Going for a small hike and just out of breath.
Speaker A:Literally right away I'm like what is this?
Speaker A:What is going on here?
Speaker A:So that was funny.
Speaker B:What is the elevation up is, is it at 10 or is it at 9 something?
Speaker A:It's so we were, we had these like cool little cabins we're staying in and I think that was at like 9,000 and then the town itself, I think it's like seven, eight something.
Speaker A:So it definitely left my breath away for sure.
Speaker A:Took my breath.
Speaker B:So we have a home up in Breckenridge that we use in the winter for skiing and we'll in the summer when we can.
Speaker B:It's been hard to get there in the summer, but we go up there in the summer when we can.
Speaker B:And it.
Speaker B:The only way to get affordable real estate in these mountain towns is to either be very far from the town or to be very high up.
Speaker B:And so our house is 10,800ft.
Speaker B:It is crazy high.
Speaker B:So sleeping is a challenge.
Speaker B:And yeah, just walking out the door is a challenge.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:No, this, the sleep factor.
Speaker A:Like, I don't wear an OOR ring, but if I had one, it would definitely be like poor quality.
Speaker A:Just you're up so high.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:The lack of.
Speaker A:Yeah, and definitely coming back, I was pretty, pretty tired.
Speaker A:So I think just being at that altitude, existing up there is fatiguing.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:We have a good program for you.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about a few different things here and then we are going to package it all up and get it to my daughter Lauren so that she can get it edited out to the listeners as soon as possible.
Speaker B:So what are we going to be covering today, Matt?
Speaker A:Yeah, so today we're going to go through the first thing.
Speaker A:We're just going to kind of recap my race at 70.3 Boise.
Speaker A:Good race for a lot of reasons.
Speaker A:Going to just dive into that.
Speaker A:And then being there at that venue, it got me thinking what, what entails a good race?
Speaker A:What does it mean to have a good race location?
Speaker A:So we'll discuss that and then I think we'll touch on the Ironman leads race a little bit.
Speaker A:Sam laid low, was back in action there.
Speaker B:And then we're also going to bring up something that was brought to my attention.
Speaker B:One of the listeners wanted to hear us discuss the.
Speaker B:Something we've mentioned briefly in the past, but the idea of the race Ranger for age groupers, given that so many of the races are getting a little bit.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:We talked earlier this year about how the penalties have changed and at least in my first two goes on the 70.3 series, I'm feeling like people are less bothered by having a penalty because they only have to sit there for two minutes.
Speaker B:And I'm thinking they're taking advantage of drafting rules.
Speaker B:So we're going to just talk about our thoughts on the race Ranger and whether it should come to age group racing.
Speaker B:But let's begin first, Matt, with your very successful effort out in Boise, I want to hear all about what you thought about your day and then of course, what you thought about the race itself.
Speaker A:Boise, it was a good race.
Speaker A:I like.
Speaker A:I look back A little bit and try and think, could I have got more out of myself or done things differently out on the course to, to, to maybe change the result Because I ended up getting in fourth.
Speaker A:I was fourth by just, I think over a minute or around a minute, which it doesn't seem like a lot, I guess, in a three plus hour race.
Speaker A:But if you look at the distance between me and the third place guy, it's somewhat decent.
Speaker A:But then you just, oh, what could I have done?
Speaker A:And honestly I just, to me, I just don't know what else I could have done out on the race course.
Speaker A:We'll start with the swim and going into this race I really, I dial back my swim a lot anyways, just for time reasons and stuff.
Speaker A:But I was really only training.
Speaker A:So I'm training about twice a week since Boulder leading into this race.
Speaker A:So for about five or six weeks.
Speaker A:And really this swim it.
Speaker A:What could have happened was it would have been nice to have a bit of a, a breakaway maybe with me and one or two other guys.
Speaker A:But right off the start it all came together and I really took it out hard.
Speaker A:I think for the first about 400 meters, like I basically just put my head down, hammered, I was leading and really into that red zone.
Speaker A:So I was just hammering, just trying to build some kind of separation and went into the red zone and basically flipped onto my back, did some backstroke to let the next guy come through.
Speaker A:And I could see we had a pretty, pretty sizable group on the feet.
Speaker A:And the swim itself is quite choppy.
Speaker A:So if you're leading, you're also breaking the waves for the guys behind.
Speaker A:So I think it's also harder to maybe establish a gap there.
Speaker A:And yeah, I was, I got on someone's feet and basically sat there for a bit.
Speaker A:We made the turn around, the first kind of turn buoy, which would have been at maybe 800 or so meters.
Speaker A:And then again I went to the front, dug deep, hammered to try and push the swim even more.
Speaker A:And I think it did help a little bit with certain athletes dropping them.
Speaker A:But then again went into the red zone.
Speaker A:No, I can't sustain that for the rest of the swim.
Speaker A:And flipped on my back, did some more backstroke and really just settled into that like third position.
Speaker A:But even as we approach the end of the swim, I could feel people on the feet smacking my feet.
Speaker A:So I knew we had a decent sized group coming out of the water.
Speaker A:For sure, for sure.
Speaker B:And who were the kind of top swimmers that were there.
Speaker A:So myself, definitely one of the top Swimmers.
Speaker A:Sam Appleton, the guy who won Boulders 70.3, is always a great swimmer.
Speaker A:Although he's.
Speaker A:He's been doing Ironman races the last couple years a little bit more.
Speaker A:So you never see him right at the front at the beginning of these races.
Speaker A:He's always the diesel engine that comes in the second half.
Speaker A:And true to form, he did that.
Speaker A: nk he led from maybe the last: Speaker A:From there on in, I think he led that, that last bit just to keep the pace on.
Speaker A:And then the other guy who I was swapping the lead with is actually a Canadian guy who I used to train with.
Speaker A:His name's Brennan Smith.
Speaker A:A hardworking dude.
Speaker A:He was fired up to, to push the swim.
Speaker A:So we were chatting up before the race, trying to get each other stoked to hammer.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he ended up leading outta the water, which is great.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was good to see him just at the front of the race anyways.
Speaker B:And then you had talked about the net negative down, down loss of elevation from the bike.
Speaker B:So how did that feel over the 56 miles?
Speaker A:Definitely coming out of that swim, you're up really high on this like reservoir dam situation.
Speaker A:And so it was actually really cool.
Speaker A:Like you, you go along on the top of the dam wall.
Speaker A:It's a huge expansive view down towards the rest of the river.
Speaker A:And the pace was just on because we had a lot of good cyclists with us right off the bat.
Speaker A:So I was just hanging on for those first few miles.
Speaker A:Definitely enjoyed the downhill.
Speaker A:And then we got into some more uphill sections and I was with a group like I was in the lead group.
Speaker A:It was a guy.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:Sam Appleton was leading for a lot of it.
Speaker A:And then Justin Rielly rode up a little bit and Sam Osborne, New Zealand guy was ahead of me.
Speaker A:And then it was myself.
Speaker A:And then behind me was Justin Metzler.
Speaker A:So there's like five of us.
Speaker A:And I knew those Sam and Justin Rielly were gonna smash the bike.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:The first hilly section really just, just went for it.
Speaker A:And also I wrote about this in the newsletter.
Speaker A:Like I didn't have my bike computer.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:You left it in the hotel.
Speaker A:I got.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's so nice to hear that these things happen to you guys.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:I've been a pro for many years and still making mistakes, still doing little streams up.
Speaker A:That was funny.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But the thing is, because I've had a lot of these mistakes over the years.
Speaker A:Like I, I freaked out for a second and then I was like Wait, you know this.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:What would I rather not have?
Speaker A:My bike computer or my nutrition?
Speaker A:And definitely would rather have my nutrition because I want to be able to run when I get to the run.
Speaker A:And if I don't have a bike computer, yeah, I'm flying blind.
Speaker A:I don't have the metrics or whatever.
Speaker B:But you've been doing it long enough that you can rely on feel to.
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:And during that first five miles of the bike, I knew I was way over my limit.
Speaker A:But in a 70.3, definitely, I feel like you can push that just to try and establish position in the group, because you never know.
Speaker A:Sometimes it slows down.
Speaker A:Fortunately for me, it did not slow down.
Speaker A:And I got through the first kind of major hill section and I was super gassed and I was really pushing.
Speaker A:But those guys on the kind of.
Speaker A:It was a long downhill stretch towards mile 10 of the bike.
Speaker A:That's where I got gapped.
Speaker A:I just could not hang with those boys.
Speaker A:And right when the elastic band snapped, I was like, oh, boy, I need to consolidate here.
Speaker B:Now, when you go over the red line like that and you have to consolidate, have you already burned enough matches that you know you're in trouble, or do you just need to recover a little bit and then you're good to go?
Speaker A:Once I got lost in the group, I just take a.
Speaker A:Obviously take a drink or whatever, get some fuel in, but really reset because I know there's going to be more people coming up from behind.
Speaker A:So I just get into my own rhythm, which isn't that quick because I had the guys come up from behind me pretty quickly and.
Speaker A:But really, like, you just get fuel in, take a reset.
Speaker A:I didn't have any devastating cramping or like serious cramping.
Speaker A:That's when I know I. I'm almost gonna screw up the rest of my race if I'm seriously cramping, because it just is so hard to come back when you're cooked like that.
Speaker A:So I didn't have any of that.
Speaker A:So I knew I was gonna be okay, I think, for the rest of the ride.
Speaker A:But mile 10, I've already lost the lead group.
Speaker A:You're kind of like, ooh, we still have quite a few miles left on the tank.
Speaker A:What's gonna happen now?
Speaker A:And I knew my game really was to.
Speaker A:As people came by, just trying to hold on for dear life and just, yeah, try and hang on to the next available wheel, basically.
Speaker B:Were there any out and back sections where you could gauge what your deficit was?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So not long after I got dropped, I got caught by a group of two guys, Josh Burles and Justin Metzler and I just basically hung onto them and once they caught me, we were on this long out back section and I feel like we lost.
Speaker A:We were maybe two minutes behind at the first out and back, which would have been about 20 miles in.
Speaker A:So there was a couple, definitely a couple opportunities on the bike to gauge where you were, but I couldn't really even focus that much on like I was just hanging on for dear life for pretty much the rest of the ride.
Speaker B:You still managed to finish the bike in good position though.
Speaker B:You didn't drop out of the top 10 at all.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:And thankfully like I, I had a good buffer from trying to hang onto that front group that when by the time people came by they had already obviously already put them some hurt in their legs.
Speaker A:So really it was definitely a mental battle as much as a physical battle.
Speaker A:And honestly like looking back, I'm glad I didn't have my power meter in some way because if I had seen what I was doing for that first 10, 15 minutes like I probably would have freaked out and be like, ah, like I can't do this or whatever.
Speaker A:So in a way it was actually good that way.
Speaker B:It's a valuable lesson, but I often wonder, are we handicapping ourself with having too many metrics?
Speaker B:I used to work with a coach who used to say you need to learn to ride without your power meter so that you can see what you're actually capable of.
Speaker B:And I've been so scared of that because I have had so many times where I've over biked a course and then ended up walking the run.
Speaker B:And as an age grouper that's just not.
Speaker A:You don't want that, nobody wants.
Speaker B:You don't want that.
Speaker B:And I don't have the reserve that you guys do as pros and I am just always.
Speaker B:But I also face this and I know a lot of us age groupers do always wonder, what if I pushed a little bit harder?
Speaker B:I've been training so hard.
Speaker B:I know I can ride a little bit harder than this, but it's, it's tough, it's tough to know.
Speaker B:I'm so glad for you.
Speaker B:I wonder how it will inform your next race.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know and it's, I wish I almost had it working but like I couldn't see it because then it would be great to get that data and understand how hard I was working because I feel like in, in the pro racing anyways that I Do you're not going out there doing a steady output.
Speaker A:Like, I was hammering the first, whatever, 15 plus minutes, then took a little bit kind of break in air quotes, a little break, and then caught onto these groups.
Speaker A:And in the group when you're doing the 12 meters, like, there's definitely a benefit being behind.
Speaker A:No question about that.
Speaker A:But you're also trying to stay with, not inside the draft zone, so you're really focusing on the wheel ahead of you.
Speaker A:There's a lot of, like, surges, especially if you're further back, which can SAP the legs in a different way than just riding steady.
Speaker A:If you're doing these constant 400 watt surge and then, you know, back down to 200 watts, that can take its toll versus just like a steady, whatever, 300 watt push.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, so you finished the bike, and you're onto the run and pretty flat run course, as we had talked about.
Speaker B:How did you enjoy it?
Speaker A:Yeah, the run course itself was awesome.
Speaker A:It was on this river belt, green belt in Boise, which is a really nice.
Speaker A:There's two paths on either side of the river that we basically ran up one way and then back down the other side.
Speaker A:And it was shaded most of the way, so it was a pretty hot day.
Speaker A:But it didn't end up feeling that bad because of just the shade and everything.
Speaker A:It's funny because starting the.
Speaker A:Starting that run like the bike was a big effort for me.
Speaker A:I could really feel it in the legs.
Speaker A:And, yeah, the first few miles, like, I was just not really moving that well.
Speaker A:My stride was a little choppy.
Speaker A:Like, it just.
Speaker A:It felt.
Speaker A:It's hard to describe, but just short and choppy, and there was just no rhythm.
Speaker A:And as I was running, like, I ended up being by myself, and I like to race.
Speaker A:So the guys up who were up ahead the podium, like, they were pretty far ahead from what I could tell at the turnaround.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I wasn't really getting many splits on, like, distance or time back.
Speaker A:So for me, I didn't really have, like, much of an external focus for quite a while starting the run.
Speaker A:And it's not what I want to be doing.
Speaker A:I want to be, like, hammering with someone or knowing I'm maybe chipping away at a lead and getting hyped up on that.
Speaker A:And it wasn't until, I guess, mile, maybe mile four of the 13, where I had an athlete who I had been riding with, Miguel Maddox.
Speaker A:He came by, and he was running very well.
Speaker A:And I just was like, screw this.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna hang on to this guy.
Speaker A:And immediately some kind of flip switched where instead of being internally focused, like, like my rhythm's not good, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:It was just like hang on to this guy, do everything I can to just hang onto this guy's shoulder.
Speaker A:And it just unlocked this more relaxed state.
Speaker A:Cuz like literally as I started running with him, like my stride opened up, my breathing relaxed a little bit.
Speaker A:He was running a like a decent pace but it wasn't out of control.
Speaker A:So I was able to find my own rhythm with that pace.
Speaker A:And it just.
Speaker A:The race changed after that where I found my rhythm.
Speaker A:Maybe the nutrition hit or something, I don't know at that point.
Speaker A:But I think we ran together for another two miles or so and then I was able to just crank away and just keep pushing.
Speaker A:And I didn't get any updates on where I was relative to the podium.
Speaker A:But at this last turnaround I could see I'd made some inroads and maybe there was like four miles left at that point.
Speaker A:And then I was just like, we're going all in.
Speaker A:And I just had to like totally hammer the last, yeah, four miles of the run.
Speaker A:Just went all in and then made up quite a bit of time.
Speaker A:Obviously not enough, but yeah, it was a great kind of way to turn the run around and just finish strong.
Speaker B:I think it's a lesson we can all learn from.
Speaker B:I think often when we're running back half of the run, I think we often turn in internally and start to think about how our form sucks or our pace sucks or whatever.
Speaker B:And if we can find something like you just described, just find anyone else to pace off of or just focus on something external and stop dwelling on the negative things that are consuming you.
Speaker B:All of a sudden it just becomes so much easier and I think that's a really important take home that we can all learn from.
Speaker B:Just a great day for you, Matt.
Speaker B:It's a nice comeback race after Boulder and St. George where I think you were not as.
Speaker B:Didn't perform up to your expectations.
Speaker B:This was fourth place.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, it's funny because in Boulder, my fourth place, like there was no chance I was getting third.
Speaker A:Like Kevin, the guy who was in third ahead of me, he was like what, two minutes plus, maybe almost three minutes ahead of me and.
Speaker A:But whereas this one, because I was fourth but third so close, was somewhat attainable up the road.
Speaker A:I'm almost like ah, like ah, you.
Speaker B:Feel not as good.
Speaker A:I'm like not as fired up.
Speaker A:And also I had good training coming into this as well.
Speaker A:That's funny.
Speaker A:Like, it's a solid result for sure.
Speaker A:I feel as a pro, you always want to be in the podium in some ways.
Speaker A:It doesn't necessarily matter in some ways, because as long as you have that podium imagery, it's nice to have, but it's still a strong result.
Speaker A:Good field.
Speaker A:And I guess my focus going into this race, too, like I talked about, I wasn't swimming that much.
Speaker A:I really went all in on trying to bump the bike volume and just lift my bike performance.
Speaker A:And of course, like, I don't have the data to.
Speaker A:To prove that out, but I think anecdotally, based on how I was going on the ride and how things played out, like, I definitely felt like there was an improvement made.
Speaker A:There's no quantifiable way to look at it.
Speaker A:It's just vibes, just pure vibes.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:Well, I want to come back and get your kind of overall feeling of Boise as a race host and also in the context of the two new 70.3 locations that have been announced.
Speaker B:But first, just very briefly, just think we should comment on what took place on the same weekend in Leeds where Sam Laidlow had another really great race.
Speaker B:He wasn't really challenged.
Speaker B:I think we both felt that was going to be the case.
Speaker B:But he went out there internally motivated, basically, and led from the gun all the way to the finish and really put down a very nice performance.
Speaker B:What was your.
Speaker B:You're looking at that.
Speaker B:Do you think he's back all the way?
Speaker A:He's back.
Speaker A:I don't know if he's back all the way.
Speaker A:It's the Leeds race.
Speaker A:The competition wasn't really that stiff.
Speaker A:I think for him, all he needed to do out there was just go and validate his spot.
Speaker A:But he's a competitor.
Speaker A:He's not just gonna phone it in or whatever.
Speaker A:So he had a strong result on a pretty hard course like Leeds is definitely.
Speaker A:I don't think there's anywhere flat in Leeds.
Speaker A:I've been there before race there, and it's literally just hills everywhere, which is good because nice.
Speaker A:Where he validated for is obviously going to be quite hilly.
Speaker A:And to me, it just shows like he's there.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:It's hard to see, though, because he just had so much struggle and issues with health stuff earlier this year.
Speaker A:Has Will.
Speaker A:Will he get there in time to be at his peak?
Speaker B:I don't know, but he's got this last block, right.
Speaker B:He's got momentum, six weeks or so.
Speaker A:And there's something to do with.
Speaker A:With having Momentum going into a race, even if It's.
Speaker A:You're not 100, if you have just, like the wind at your back, which he definitely does, he definitely has that momentum going.
Speaker A:I think he could outperform people who maybe have been healthy or whatever, but maybe they just don't have the same mental, I guess, who have been healthy.
Speaker B:Who have been healthy and have potentially raced more because they've been healthy.
Speaker B:He's got the luxury of coming in a little bit later in the season and potentially peaking at the red, and.
Speaker A:He'Ll also maybe come in like, he's not coming in as the champion anymore.
Speaker A:So it's almost like the pressure's off him a little bit.
Speaker A:But he does have this momentum.
Speaker A:So there's a lot of tailwinds for Sam Laidlaw going into Nice in.
Speaker A:I think it's what, six weeks or so?
Speaker B:Something like that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's mid September, so that would be about six weeks.
Speaker B:All right, let's get back to Boise.
Speaker B:I want to hear what your impressions were of the locale, of the event itself.
Speaker B:I did not see the numbers I should look up.
Speaker B:I didn't see the.
Speaker B:See the race numbers, the participants.
Speaker A:Yeah, I feel like it over 2K, for sure, looking at the transition zone and, yeah, this is a return for this race.
Speaker A:I think it after 10 years or maybe slightly less, eight years or something.
Speaker B:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker A:But then it had been going on for quite a while before that.
Speaker A:I'd never been to Boise.
Speaker A:It was a great place to have a race.
Speaker A:And, like, being there, I was kind of like, man, this is a great spot.
Speaker A:And then it kind of just made me think, what does it mean to have a good race location or to be a good race location?
Speaker A:And I think I was influenced a bit, too, by the community, because just a very strong, very enthusiastic triathlon community in Boise.
Speaker A:Actually got to do a little pro panel pre race at one of the bike shops, and it was well attended by local athletes.
Speaker A:So there's just great community there.
Speaker A:I don't think they have any issues getting volunteers for this race.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:That's a huge plus.
Speaker A:I think community's super important for a race location.
Speaker A:It's hard to, like, just plop these things down without some kind of local network or history of triathlon.
Speaker A:I think it's important, too, because a lot of.
Speaker A:I think a lot of people from their race, but also it seemed like most people were able to drive.
Speaker A:Like, I talked to a lot of people from Salt Lake City who drove up.
Speaker A:I think do you think that's important for a good race?
Speaker A:Location, driving, proximity?
Speaker B: So it was: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:But I tend to think of Boise as being remote, although it does draw from eastern Washington.
Speaker B:It can draw from.
Speaker A:There was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There was also a lot of people from Colorado as well.
Speaker A:Some lady was like, there's more people from Colorado than from Idaho.
Speaker B:I was wondering if we could draw from Colorado.
Speaker B:I remember when I went, I flew, because it's a bit of a long drive for us, and I'm trying to think if it could draw from the east.
Speaker B:But I mean, it's probably pretty far from Chicago and the big metropolitan area.
Speaker A:Probably more of like a Mountain west filter.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:When I think just a greater context you're asking about is being able to drive to a location important?
Speaker B:I think when I think of, for me, a 70.3 location.
Speaker B:So when we think about the next ones that have just been introduced, we have the one in Dallas, which is.
Speaker B:I can't remember what it's called because it's not called Dallas.
Speaker A:It's in a suburb.
Speaker A:Suburb pretty far.
Speaker A:Little Elm, I think is the.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And then there's Omaha, which is going to be in June, and then there is the Boise one, which is July.
Speaker A:And so there's also the New Mexico.
Speaker B:One next year, too, and the New Mexico one.
Speaker B:So timing is important, location is important, and then the course is going to be important.
Speaker B:So because again, I don't have a big problem with traveling to a race.
Speaker B:I enjoy traveling to a new place that I haven't been to.
Speaker B:And so location is the accessibility of the location.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:So flying into Boise is not the easiest thing in the world.
Speaker B:The flights tend to be a little bit more expensive.
Speaker B:The Dallas race.
Speaker B:Not hugely excited about a race in Dallas.
Speaker B:I'll have to wait.
Speaker B:And that's when the course becomes an interesting.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:The other thing is the community.
Speaker B:So having raced in Oregon now a couple times, and then in Richland, Washington, where the community was so incredibly positive and welcoming, that's important.
Speaker B:If I'm going to go to a race in a Dallas suburb where I know that the drivers are maybe not going to be so thrilled about seeding a lane of the roads for one day, that's going to give me a little bit of pause.
Speaker B:Now, I don't know this area in Dallas.
Speaker B:Anybody who's listening who might know different, you can feel free to let us know in the Talk Tempo talks.
Speaker B:Facebook group.
Speaker B:But that is something that comes into my mind.
Speaker B:Like I've done the race in Galveston where it's not been an issue.
Speaker B:It's a well established race.
Speaker B:The community seems it happens on a weekend that is not a big weekend for people to be going down to Galveston.
Speaker B:And so therefore it's not a big deal for bikers to be on the road.
Speaker B:But I don't know what this area is going to be like.
Speaker B:So when I think about a good race location, it's going to be somewhere I can get to at a time of year I want to go to it and with a course that I actually want to participate on.
Speaker B:The Boise course is a really pretty course.
Speaker B:The location is not the easiest to get to, but it's not the hardest.
Speaker B:And yes, I think that if you.
Speaker B:It opens up to a lot more people.
Speaker B:If it is somewhere that people can drive to.
Speaker B:And clearly the Dallas course, a lot of people can drive.
Speaker B:That's gonna be pulling from huge.
Speaker A:That's gonna be pulling.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:It's right.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Like flying to Boise, I feel like if you're on the west coast, there was.
Speaker A:I was looking at the airport.
Speaker A:There's a lot of direct flights from la, from San Francisco, from Seattle, from Denver, Vegas as well.
Speaker A:So there's opportunities that way.
Speaker A:But yeah, if you're coming for someone from the east coast, there's definitely a layover situation going on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But what about like the Boise race?
Speaker A:The one thing usually I really don't like is the two separate transitions.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker B:Yeah, logistics.
Speaker A:Logistics were crazy.
Speaker A:And then you forget your bike computer and you can't go back to the hotel.
Speaker A:That's it, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What do you think about that?
Speaker B:Yeah, I've done a lot of races with two transitions.
Speaker B:So Indian Wells, you've done Indian, of course.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Indian Wells is another one with two transitions, but it's offset.
Speaker B:And that is a painful setup because.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Doing your bike the day now they've changed the race.
Speaker B:The swim is still in the same place.
Speaker B:Not sure where the bike anyways that it's really.
Speaker B:The T1 transition is the big pain in the butt.
Speaker B:I've done a lot of races with two transitions.
Speaker B:It's just a matter of being prepared.
Speaker B:The other race I did recently was North Carolina beach to Battleship that has two transitions.
Speaker B:Also a pain in the butt because getting to T1, it's just the traffic and everything else.
Speaker A:Yeah, you have to have.
Speaker A:If you have two transitions, you have to have better everything else.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:I. I won't Voluntarily choose to do a two transition race.
Speaker B:But it's not going to be a deal breaker for me.
Speaker B:It just means I. I'm going to have to be extra diligent about preparation and planning and I.
Speaker B:It's no question a single transition race is much more convenient, especially if you're coming from out of town and you don't have to rent a car.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Then that's a single transition setup means you definitely can get away often without renting a car.
Speaker B:Two transitions, forget it.
Speaker B:You're going to have to for sure.
Speaker A:And Boise too.
Speaker A:Like there was a lot of accommodation.
Speaker A:So that was a big plus.
Speaker A:I think also it was a nice place if you had your family there because there's just a lot of like family activities.
Speaker A:You could go tubing on the river afterwards or something.
Speaker A:Like a lot of people sounded like brought their families to this race.
Speaker A:So is that something you look for in a race?
Speaker A:Like things for your family to do when you.
Speaker A:Because they're not.
Speaker A:They're golf.
Speaker B:It varies.
Speaker B:It varies.
Speaker B:My family doesn't travel with me that much anymore for races.
Speaker B:But I will say, like when I was doing full Ironmans, they were more than happy to come to Hawaii.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker B:So yeah.
Speaker B:So certain race locations.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:The family is.
Speaker B:Like when Oregon was.
Speaker B:I have to make sure I got in a lot of trouble for saying Oregon.
Speaker B:So it's Oregon.
Speaker B:I got to shorten up that O. Oregon was a good example of a really family friendly race.
Speaker B:Not the least of which is because the transition area is in the heart of downtown.
Speaker B:So there was just tons of things for family to do while you were out on the bike.
Speaker B:They could go grab a coffee.
Speaker B:They could go same.
Speaker A:Same with Boise.
Speaker A:Right in downtown.
Speaker B:So that was.
Speaker B:That is a big positive.
Speaker B:And I think yes, if I am going to travel with my family or if there's any chance my family is going to travel with me, then the location is everything.
Speaker B:It's got to be in a place that they want to go to.
Speaker B:No question.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And thinking about the kind of newly announced races from Ironman, the Dallas one.
Speaker A:I don't know if there's gonna be a lot of family activities.
Speaker A:You might just solo.
Speaker A:Solo that trip.
Speaker A:But it could be a good course.
Speaker A:Like I think it would be fast.
Speaker A:I don't think it's super hilly around there.
Speaker B:There are hills in that area.
Speaker B:But they're not gonna be like, listen, that race is going up against Oceanside, I believe because it's about a month before.
Speaker A:It's a mouth.
Speaker A:Month before.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it's going to be competing for the same kinds of.
Speaker B:The people who are going to race in that race are the.
Speaker B:It's going to be basically because the two races that are around that time are Texas, which is Galveston, and then Oceanside.
Speaker B:So I think now those races are always perennial sellouts because they're the first races of the year.
Speaker B:And I think that people are excited to get going.
Speaker B:So this race is probably going to.
Speaker B:I don't think it'll siphon from them.
Speaker B:I just think it'll allow for more people to participate in an early season race.
Speaker B:Now, early season races are sometimes tough draws, especially one as early as that.
Speaker B:Because are people ready to go at that time of year?
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:I'm definitely going to consider it because I like doing an early season race.
Speaker B:I have to look at it and see if it really fits and if I'll actually be ready.
Speaker B:Because after Worlds this year I need a bit of a break.
Speaker B:And once I'll start training again in January, am I going to be ready by March?
Speaker B:If there's a chance I will, I would definitely consider it.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:So it's up against that.
Speaker B:I think you're right.
Speaker B:I think it will be a generally fast course.
Speaker B:But one thing that really bothers me about Ironman announcing these races, they know the courses.
Speaker B:There's no way they announce a race without knowing the courses.
Speaker B:And they don't post the courses for quite a long time.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:And it's frustrating because if you want to sign up for a race, you want to know the course.
Speaker B:And they don't always post it.
Speaker B:Now, I haven't looked.
Speaker B:It's very possible I'll look while we're chatting.
Speaker B:But they may have posted the courses for a couple of these, but they often don't.
Speaker B:And I was talking to some people in Omaha and they're quite excited about that race.
Speaker B:And that goes up against Boulder, does it?
Speaker B:I gotta tell you, it's the weekend before.
Speaker B:Oh, it might be the same weekend.
Speaker B:But I gotta tell you, I finally have a race I could do instead of Boulder and I'm so excited.
Speaker B:But next year I'm doing Victoria anyways, so I'm not going to do Boulder.
Speaker A:Oh, excellent.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:But at least I'll have an option next year.
Speaker A:Hopefully.
Speaker B:I got an option.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'd love Victoria to have a pro race because I definitely would love to do that.
Speaker B:I don't think they ever had.
Speaker A:It's pre Covid.
Speaker A:Pre Covid.
Speaker A:They did.
Speaker B:You got a lobby for that mount?
Speaker B:That'd be fun.
Speaker A:I know we need to.
Speaker A:The tempo needs to really up its lobbying game.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker B:Besides a race having a pro field, what do you look for as a pro?
Speaker B:What's important for you guys?
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:I definitely agree with the logistics.
Speaker A:Like I definitely would prefer just a single transition.
Speaker A:I think for if you're a pro, you're probably, I don't know, you're most likely flying to these races.
Speaker A:If it's at a decent airport, then you're just gonna have a lot more options for flying.
Speaker A:Like go.
Speaker A:Flying to Boise from Denver was super easy.
Speaker A:To be fair, flying from Denver to most places in the US Is quite easy.
Speaker A:It's a huge airport.
Speaker A:I think just having like good quality courses.
Speaker A:Like the one thing from the Boise race was the swim course was a little janky with the buoys.
Speaker A:I think the wind kicked them up or something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And just generally well organized, which you're not going to know in a first year race.
Speaker A:But I'd say the Boise folks did a fantastic job.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ease of travel I guess is a big one for me anyways.
Speaker B:All right, so I gotta eat my words.
Speaker B:They do have the course posted for Little Elm, so that is a good thing.
Speaker B:Well done, Ironman.
Speaker B:I apologize.
Speaker B:I misspoke.
Speaker B:The bike course is rolling.
Speaker B:It's not hilly.
Speaker B: It's: Speaker B:It's not flat, it's not flat, but it's not.
Speaker B:I wouldn't call it hilly.
Speaker B:And then the run course is flat, 200, 200ft or so.
Speaker A:It's a good early season race for you, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it'll be a good one.
Speaker B:And they're talking about air temperatures like 70.
Speaker B:Comfortable, very comfortable.
Speaker B:So yeah, I'm definitely going to look at that one.
Speaker B:And then let's see if they've got Omaha.
Speaker B:You know what they don't have, Matt, is they don't have the world championship race.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:For some reason the course for that still isn't posted and I don't understand why.
Speaker A:Weird.
Speaker B:Come on guys, we all want to know.
Speaker B:No, so they don't have oma.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:I apologize for Little Elm.
Speaker B:But the Omaha race that was announced, they still don't have the course posted for that.
Speaker B:So I'm 50.
Speaker B:50 on my.
Speaker B:My comment about race courses.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Anyways, there you go.
Speaker A:Speaking of racing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Our last topic for the day and this is one that came from a listener.
Speaker B:He's actually one of the athletes that I coach.
Speaker B:His name is Language and he wanted to know our thoughts about Incorporating the race ranger.
Speaker B:That is the famous technology that we've talked about in the past.
Speaker B:It's those blinking lights that are affixed to the bike so that you can tell when you are in the draft zone and when you need to make a pass.
Speaker B:And I have now raced a couple of times, Boulder and Oregon, and in both races, I was a little bit disappointed to see what I consider to be a little bit more drafting than I have noticed in the past.
Speaker B:Oregon was particularly bad.
Speaker B:So I still remain despite my age.
Speaker B:Fortunately, I remain reasonably strong biker.
Speaker B:And it takes me a certain amount usually to make up for my swim.
Speaker B:It takes me usually about 10 to 15 miles to get towards the part of the bike where it thins out the crowds a little bit.
Speaker B:So by mile 10 to 12 in Oregon, I was in.
Speaker B:I had gotten past the packs and I was in a thinner area and I was biking person to person kind of thing.
Speaker B:But after the turnaround there.
Speaker B:Actually, even before the turnaround, there was one guy who looked like he was about my age group, maybe the age group before me.
Speaker B:And he would get passed by a younger guy and just jump onto his wheel and just draft like he would just stick to the guy's and like it wasn't even.
Speaker B:And he would stick as long as he could.
Speaker B:And then once he fell off, he would just go back to doing his thing.
Speaker B:And then the next young guy would go by and he would jump on that wheel.
Speaker B:And I was like looking at this, going unbelievable.
Speaker B:Like, it.
Speaker B:It was unbelievable.
Speaker B:And I don't know if he got caught, but even if he did, he ended up pulling way ahead of me because of what he was doing.
Speaker B:And if he had got the two minute penalty, I wouldn't have caught him.
Speaker B:But worse than that was the packs that formed on the return trip back.
Speaker B:It's an out and back course.
Speaker B:And on the way back, there were just these guys that were riding in pace lines and it was.
Speaker B:The official did come by and did get a whole bunch of them with penalties, which is nice.
Speaker B:Oh, it was really nice to see.
Speaker B:It was really nice to see.
Speaker A:Were you yelling at the official?
Speaker A:Yeah, you got this.
Speaker B:So the pack went by me.
Speaker B:The pack went by me and I was like, what the hell?
Speaker B:Anyway, so I sat up and I let them go by and then I got back into Arrow.
Speaker B:So I started riding again and then the motorcycle came up and I gesticulated like, are you gonna do something about that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then to their credit, they did.
Speaker B:They just went along and just blew card.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, that's great.
Speaker B:But it makes it really hard if you're trying to ride legally.
Speaker B:Because what happens is, here I am, I get behind this pack, I let them get ahead, and then I notice they're not riding.
Speaker B:I could ride faster.
Speaker B:So I have to pass a whole pack of them, and I end up having to put out more effort than I want to.
Speaker B:And I finally get ahead of them, and I go back to doing my thing.
Speaker B:And then here they come.
Speaker B:The whole train goes by again.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:Because they think I want to be part of it or something.
Speaker B:And I'm like, no, I want nothing to do with you guys.
Speaker B:So the question becomes.
Speaker B:Now, I think it's.
Speaker B:I think it's not reasonable to put the Race Ranger on everybody's bike.
Speaker B:It's too expensive.
Speaker B:It's not fair to charge every.
Speaker A:Right now.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:I would think in time, with the improvements in the technology, let's say they had some more money to, like, make those units smaller.
Speaker A:I actually do think it could be.
Speaker B:Feasible at some point, but right now it's not.
Speaker B:So the question then becomes, is there a way to identify the people and listen?
Speaker B:It's not that hard.
Speaker B:I was take the top 250 from those lists.
Speaker B:The list is out from my last race.
Speaker B:I was number 35.
Speaker B:So I show up for my next race.
Speaker B:It's very easy to cross reference the start lists with the previous finishes.
Speaker B:Hey, you were in the top 250.
Speaker B:You get a Race Ranger.
Speaker B:And for that privilege, we're going to charge you an extra 10 bucks or something.
Speaker B:And I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know what the logistics would be.
Speaker B:I will tell you, and I am sure that our friend Brian, who is listening and is always willing and ready with an opinion.
Speaker B:I know that Brian will agree with me on this, but, Brian, I want to hear.
Speaker B:If you don't.
Speaker B:If you don't agree with me, let us know.
Speaker B:But I'm just curious what other people think, and I want to know.
Speaker B:Matt, I know it doesn't impact you because you're already using them, but I just don't think it's okay to see people being as ridiculous as they are about the rules.
Speaker A:And it's definitely frustrating.
Speaker A:You have this bifurcation in the age group field in a lot of ways, where you have athletes like yourself, a lot of others who are wanting to perform and try and get top performances and podiums and whatnot.
Speaker A:And then you have the folks who are just there maybe to check something off a list or whatever.
Speaker A:Like, it's two different goals in a way.
Speaker A:And then there's clashing because you have the folks who clearly don't really care about, like, the drafting.
Speaker A:They're literally trying to get to the finish or do whatever they can to get to the finish.
Speaker A:So it's like, how do you maybe separate those fields?
Speaker A:And this is.
Speaker A:I've had this conversation with someone where they talk about having almost like a pro series, but for age groupers, obviously, they could charge a little more.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:To have that kind of separate.
Speaker A:Could you even separate the fields or would it just be the athletes that have the Race Ranger and pay for this different kind of level of service maybe being.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But then you want everyone to be eligible for awards, so it just.
Speaker A:It's messy, for sure.
Speaker B:It's messy.
Speaker B:It's messy.
Speaker B:And I like those draft packs.
Speaker A:It's super messy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I have the utmost respect for everybody on the course.
Speaker B:If you're there to complete.
Speaker B:I want.
Speaker B:I go out there and I cheer on as many people as I'm running.
Speaker B:If I'm passing someone who looks like they're having a hard day, I give them all the support I can as I go by them.
Speaker B:I want them to have their best day, just like I'm trying to have my best day.
Speaker B:But if I'm out there riding my butt off and I've been training as hard as I can and I'm trying to ride a clean race, it just aggrieves me to see these people go by clearly not giving a crap about the rules and getting as much of a benefit as they are.
Speaker A:Did you see the data that Race Ranger released from Challenge Roth?
Speaker B:No, I didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So this was super interesting because they basically released the data from all the athletes of their time in the illegal draft zone.
Speaker A:But they also remove certain sections, like, I think going out of Transition into Transition, the aid station, certain sections on.
Speaker B:The remove Solar Hill.
Speaker A:I mean, yeah, I think they did.
Speaker A:I think they took out those kind of bunchy sections.
Speaker A:And what you were and what you saw was pretty striking in a lot of ways.
Speaker A:Like, you had the Jonas Schomburg who was off on the front.
Speaker A:Sam Lego who was off on his own, like, basically no time in the draft zone.
Speaker A:But you had other athletes that had, like, minutes.
Speaker A:Like one guy had 22 minutes in the illegal draft zone.
Speaker A:He wasn't even featured on the podium or anything.
Speaker A:But there's maybe some kind of scenario where if you did have everyone with Race Ranger devices, you could Maybe obviously collect that data and let's say above a certain threshold, you're not eligible for awards or something.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:No, you penalize them.
Speaker B:You just penalize them.
Speaker B:You're just five minutes to your time or something.
Speaker A:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:Or something like that.
Speaker A:Or maybe above a certain threshold, you just figure out a way to.
Speaker A:To punish them or ad time or whatever it is.
Speaker B:I'd be fine with that.
Speaker B:I'd be totally fine with that.
Speaker A:But that was interesting in itself because they published this data and the athletes that had, like, lots of time in the draft zone, they got skewered a little bit, which is interesting.
Speaker A:I feel like maybe when you're in a group and stuff too, there was like the yo yoing, like, in between the zones and stuff.
Speaker A:And so it's hard when you're in a group, like, to avoid yo yoing.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:Maybe you just make the draft zone bigger if you're trying to avoid this.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker B:If you're getting the visual feedback that you're in the zone, it's really.
Speaker B:Get out of this.
Speaker A:You get out of the zone.
Speaker A:But then it's just like the accordion effect.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:For me, I was like, ooh, this is an interesting situation.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I'm sure they're going to keep publishing that data, and it'll probably get people either to try and go to the front of the group or maybe just let off a little bit more.
Speaker A:But, yeah, when you're in the group, the yo yo stuff, it's an interesting situation for sure.
Speaker B:All right, what are your thoughts about all of this?
Speaker B:Race Ranger, different new locations for 70.3 races, and Matt's great performance at Boise.
Speaker B:We want to hear about it all, so drop us a line or come and join the Talk Talk Tempo Talks Facebook group.
Speaker B:If you don't already belong to our elitist little group, please do come along.
Speaker B:Answer the three questions.
Speaker B:We will grant you access, and you could become part of our very cool hipster bunch that we are.
Speaker B:We're not really.
Speaker A:It's a crew, for sure.
Speaker A:We're not elitist.
Speaker B:Definitely not.
Speaker B:We're definitely not elitist, but it is a cool group.
Speaker B:We have some good conversations, and you can ask us questions that we can bring to the program in the future.
Speaker B:For now, that's all we've got for you this week.
Speaker B:We look forward to bringing to being back with you next week for another episode of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:Matt, it's been a great conversation.
Speaker B:I've enjoyed it.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's very good.
Speaker A:And yeah, thanks for waiting a few days for me.
Speaker B:All right, talk soon.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker A:Catch up.
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