Ep 25: Unveiling the T100: A Triathlon Showdown in London and Tridot and Ironman: A High-Stakes Split
A comprehensive analysis of the upcoming T100 triathlon event in London is presented, focusing particularly on the women's field, which is expected to showcase a riveting competition among elite athletes. The discussion highlights the emerging rivalry between Taylor Nib and Julie Doran, both of whom have previously exchanged victories, setting the stage for an exhilarating rematch. The narrative delves into the implications of recent funding developments for the T100, which have injected substantial financial backing, potentially influencing race dynamics and athlete performance. Furthermore, the show examines the broader implications of these developments for the landscape of triathlon coaching and athlete support, raising pertinent questions about the future of the event and the athletes involved. The episode transitions to a critical examination of the recent fallout between Tridot and Ironman, whereby Tridot has opted to sever ties with Ironman University amid claims of unresolved business matters. This segment sheds light on the ramifications of this split for both organizations and the broader triathlon community. The speakers reflect on the historical context of Tridot's involvement with Ironman, the nature of their coaching model, and the ensuing public response from coaches and athletes alike. This discussion serves to underscore the intricate interplay between business dynamics and athlete development within the realm of triathlon, prompting listeners to consider the ethical dimensions of coaching practices in contemporary sports.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
Welcome to Tempo Talks, a show that brings you analysis of the biggest stories in triathlon training, tips to make you a better athlete, and breakdowns of the latest science and performance.
Speaker A:I'm Matthew Sharp, an olympian in triathlon, 70.3 champion and co founder of the Tempo News.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeff Sankoff, the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at Life Sport Coaching.
Speaker B:Our goal, inform and entertain two perspectives.
Speaker B:One, sport all things triathlon.
Speaker B:Now let's get into it.
Speaker B:Hello and welcome back to another fresh episode of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:It's going to be a good one.
Speaker B:Matt, how you doing?
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:I'm doing well.
Speaker A:I'm cooking a little bit here.
Speaker A:It's starting to get hot again in our area.
Speaker A:How are you managing the heat?
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's been toasty.
Speaker B:And because of my work hours, I can't get out early to do a lot of my training.
Speaker B:I have to go when I finish.
Speaker B:And yesterday I had an hour run and I looked at the temperature, it was like 102 or something.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, that's gonna be fun.
Speaker B:And it was interesting.
Speaker B:I was like running around the park and I'm like, gosh, there's nobody out here.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Because everybody else is smart.
Speaker A:Everybody's maybe waiting or got out earlier.
Speaker B:Do you.
Speaker A:Was it a workout or just like an aerobic run?
Speaker B:It was an aerobic run.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, thank goodness.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:No intervals or anything.
Speaker B:And basically when I'm going to have to run like that, I just take fluids with me and I just turned down the pace.
Speaker B:I ran a very slow pace.
Speaker B:And actually, I have to say, we're lucky where we live because when it's a hundred here, that's what it feels like.
Speaker B:We don't have a lot of humidity.
Speaker B:And if you're In Phoenix, it's 110.
Speaker B:It also feels like 110, but it's 110.
Speaker B:Whereas if you're out east, I remember, like, living in Montreal, I would go for a run, it'd be 85, but it would feel like a hundred because of the humidity.
Speaker B:And the absence of humidity really does make it much more tolerable.
Speaker A:It does, for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's smart.
Speaker A:Definitely cutting down the pace a little bit because you're in the heat.
Speaker A:So you will be getting a bit of adaptation from the heat as well.
Speaker B:Ah.
Speaker B:Which is, Matt, funny you should mention that.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Because one of the topics.
Speaker B:Nice segue.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One of our topics for today, we are going to be Covering a interesting tidbits.
Speaker B:The first will be a little bit more run of the mill.
Speaker B:We're gonna introduce a very interesting lineup that is going to be towing the start line at the T100 in London this coming weekend.
Speaker B:It looks like a very exciting race, especially on the women's side.
Speaker B:I think the men's side is going to be interesting, but the women's side is really stacked.
Speaker B:Then we are going to talk about all of the news that has been probably less exciting for most athletes, but certainly exciting for us as coaches.
Speaker B:And that has to do with the very messy and public and acronym acrimonious airing of laundry by tridot, my favorite company.
Speaker B:They have decided to split from Ironman.
Speaker B:So we're gonna talk about that.
Speaker B:Never gonna finish it, as Matt said.
Speaker B:Matt found a study that talks about heat adaptation and how our bodies change the way to metabolize carbohydrates.
Speaker B:So we're gonna touch a bit on that.
Speaker B:But let's begin first, Matt, with this T100.
Speaker B:It's coming up this weekend.
Speaker B:It looks really good in terms of the women's field especially.
Speaker A:It looks good.
Speaker A:I was actually about to announce our partnership with Tridox or Tri Dot rather.
Speaker A:But maybe we'll hold off.
Speaker A:We'll hold off on that.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, let's wait to reveal that one.
Speaker A:But yes.
Speaker A:So T100 London this weekend.
Speaker A:This is the first T100 race since Vancouver, which is about four to five weeks ago back in June, I believe.
Speaker A:And it's coming off the heels of these guys just getting a new round of funding, a $40 million funding injection.
Speaker A:So there's some tailwinds for the T100.
Speaker A:They got this new money, they got some good races early on this year they've had six races, men's and women's, with six different winners, which is always intriguing and makes the back half of the season more exciting because you just have options in terms of who could potentially win this series.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Looking at the start lists, the women's race, we'll start with the women.
Speaker A:It's looking very strong.
Speaker A:It's another kind of chapter in this burgeoning emerging rivalry between Taylor Nib and Julie Darren.
Speaker A:And of course, Julie Darren was the first athlete to break Taylor nibs T100 unbeaten streak.
Speaker A:So we'll see if she can.
Speaker A:And then Nib came back in Vancouver and retook the victory.
Speaker A:So she's got a little momentum on her side.
Speaker A:But yeah, we get to see these two kind of battle it out again for the first time.
Speaker B:Since Vancouver, but that's the top line.
Speaker B:And then below that is the fact that there are so many other phenomenal women that are lining up here, including the.
Speaker B:The gold medalist from Paris last year who is showing up.
Speaker B:Oh, excuse me.
Speaker B:Not the gold medalist, the British.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:So Georgia Taylor Brown, it's her first T100 race for her.
Speaker A:I don't know if I've seen her do any kind of non draft racing.
Speaker A:Somebody in the audience, I don't think so.
Speaker B:I think this is her.
Speaker B:Yeah, this is going to be her first one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a home course.
Speaker A:There's a lot of Brits out there who are going to be cheering her on.
Speaker A:So a bit of intrigue with her.
Speaker A:I guess my question with her is how's she going to do at this unknown distance?
Speaker A:There's just a lot of factors at play.
Speaker A:But she's really actually been focusing on cycling.
Speaker A:I think this past winter she was doing a little stint with the EF pro cycling team, I believe back in March.
Speaker A:February in this kind of racing, cycling is massive.
Speaker A:If she actually is coming in with a leg up on the biking, then she could definitely make some waves out there.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And she'll swim at the front too, obviously.
Speaker B:And all these other short course athletes have come into the middle distance and have done so well.
Speaker B:I just, I'm really excited to see what she can do because she's had so much success in the short course and I think she can be a real breakthrough performer so it'll be interesting to see how she does.
Speaker B:And then of course, Lucy Charles Bartlett, another and someone name that people probably are familiar with, someone who pushes the.
Speaker A:Race from the front as well.
Speaker A:So we could see her come out in the lead, maybe Nib just shortly behind.
Speaker A:Also Jessica Learma, who was in the breakaway with Nib in Vancouver.
Speaker A:She's going to be on the start line as well.
Speaker A:So definitely a lot of front pack firepower in this race.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And any dark horses that you could think of.
Speaker A:Well, of course you have Ashley Gentle who actually won this race last year.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh.
Speaker B:We're going to talk about Ashley Gentle as a dark horse.
Speaker B:That just tells you right there what this field is like.
Speaker A:It's crazy because just because of the way the races have played out this year, maybe she hasn't been on her top form or what have you.
Speaker A:Like, she won London last year.
Speaker A:She was second in the grand final in Dubai last year.
Speaker A:She's a great athlete.
Speaker A:It's just because of certain races, scenarios, athletes who have come to the fore.
Speaker A:She's seen as a dark horse and actually making this makes me think of another very strong contender for the win which is Kate.
Speaker A:Kate Wolf.
Speaker B:You love saying her name.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She had that breakthrough win in Singapore and has performed well everywhere she showed up.
Speaker A:She wasn't in Vancouver, so this is her return as well.
Speaker A:So throw her in the mix.
Speaker A:Obviously she's going to be at the front of the race as well, having a great swimming, short courts, background.
Speaker A:So just it's an incredible lineup.
Speaker A:It'll be very intriguing to see how it plays out and then who's going to be on top of the podium.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then on the men's side not quite the depth in terms of the professionals that are going to be there.
Speaker B:Not to say that there's not going to be some amazing people there, but not quite the mix that you can't really pick who the podium might be.
Speaker B:But I'm excited to see the return of Hayden Wilde who we talked about when he had his crash.
Speaker B:We said it would be several months and here we are several months later, 97 days.
Speaker B:It's going to be interesting.
Speaker B:I think it's going to be interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's shorter than I think the average human would need but he's not an average human so it's going to be interesting to see what kind of form he brings to this race.
Speaker B:I don't have the highest expectations because just everything he went through, but it'll be really interesting to see how he does.
Speaker A:For me, I've raced Hayden Wilde.
Speaker A:I feel like I know him somewhat.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like this guy's a gamer.
Speaker A:He's a competitor.
Speaker A:If you put him on a start line and he chooses to be on a start line, it's because he knows he can still perform at an incredibly high level.
Speaker A:So we saw him come out the first race of the year in Singapore and he won like very dominantly.
Speaker A:And yes, he was injured.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:He had obviously a lot of time to take to recover.
Speaker A:But knowing like how fit he was, what did he even run?
Speaker A:Didn't he run like 27 or minutes for 10k?
Speaker B:Yeah, it was right before.
Speaker A:So he was incredibly fit before his crash.
Speaker A:I'm obviously we'll see how he goes but I'm just curious to see how close he is to the front.
Speaker A:Honestly, if he won, like I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker A:That's the reality with him.
Speaker B:Matt, as a professional, do you.
Speaker B:I know you've talked about how somebody going from short course racing to these middle distance races It's a little bit of an unknown, but you've done both.
Speaker B:And for somebody like Hayden Wilde who's coming off this really serious injury, is it easier to go to a middle distance race where you don't have to be operating at that real really high threshold sort of effort for the whole time, or are you really still.
Speaker B:Because you're a professional, you're operating at pretty much the same level anyways, just for longer.
Speaker A:I think fitness wise, it's definitely better to be coming back to middle distance race because he would have.
Speaker A:He would have been incredibly fit before the crash.
Speaker A:As he came back from the crash, he would have been able to get into some very good zone two training, all that kind of stuff he might like.
Speaker A:We might see him further back in the swim than he typically is, which could be interesting itself for the race.
Speaker A:Just because to have him maybe bringing some folks like a certain Sam Long up with him, who knows how badly he swims.
Speaker A:But I think if he was coming back to a sprint distance Olympic distance race, he would be missing out on the swim and maybe a further back.
Speaker A:But again, he's an incredible athlete, he's incredibly fit.
Speaker A:He would still probably do quite well.
Speaker A:But I think this is like you alluded to.
Speaker A:I think this is actually better for him to come back to this.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker A:He might be missing an edge threshold wise, but he's just, he's so good that I.
Speaker A:He won't really be mid pack.
Speaker A:I really do not believe he will be a mid pack situation in this race.
Speaker B:Why do you say that he'll be missing something on the swim?
Speaker B:Is that the thing that takes the longest to come back?
Speaker A:He busted his scapula.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So I think that was one of the bigger parts of this surgery that he had.
Speaker A:He did his ribs, he did his scapula.
Speaker A:I think to me it feels like that's what it came back to him.
Speaker A:That's what he got back into last.
Speaker A:And knowing his background, he didn't come from a swimming background.
Speaker A:So I think if he's someone who maybe enjoys having really good consistent swim training, volume, what have you, maybe he's gonna lack a little bit of confidence.
Speaker A:But overall, globally he'll still be very fit.
Speaker B:Got it.
Speaker B:It's gonna be interesting.
Speaker B:So you mentioned Sam Long.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:He just confirmed his participation rather late, but still going to be there.
Speaker B:Who else is yellow?
Speaker B:Gaines.
Speaker A:Yellow Gaines is going to be there.
Speaker A:We have to point out days or day.
Speaker A:So after they got that $40 million funding announcement.
Speaker B:Yeah, the big cash.
Speaker B:Funny how the big Cash.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then Sam.
Speaker B:Sam suddenly.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so.
Speaker A:And there was pro try News did post something about the athletes finally receiving their bonus from last year.
Speaker A:And this was on the same timeline as getting the big funding.
Speaker A:So interesting plot storyline there, what have you.
Speaker A:But we're gonna have Sam Long on the start line.
Speaker A:He's always a great character.
Speaker A:He's always brings a certain energy to these races.
Speaker A:And maybe Hayden Wilde really doesn't some.
Speaker A:Well, then maybe they'll work together.
Speaker A:And this could actually be a really great result for Sam because we know he's fit.
Speaker B:All right, so yellow Gaines, Rico Bogan.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:San Francisco winner.
Speaker A:And then you also have guys like Kyle Smith.
Speaker A:You have Mika Newt, who's been on a couple of these podiums now.
Speaker A:German guy, he's definitely trending up.
Speaker A:He's a very impressive athlete.
Speaker A:You also have the return of Leo Brger, Olympic silver medalist or bronze medalist rather from last year, who was second in Singapore.
Speaker A:I don't think he did San Francisco.
Speaker A:I don't think he did Vancouver.
Speaker A:So this is his return to the T100.
Speaker A:And he's like a Hayden Wilde type.
Speaker A:He's just incredibly strong.
Speaker A:So he will certainly be in the mix for the podium.
Speaker B:Good times.
Speaker B:Now we should touch on just the funding announcement just because I think it is all wrapped up in this.
Speaker B:The money comes from.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It's from the UAE or.
Speaker B:Where did this cash come from?
Speaker A:So it's from.
Speaker A:Are you familiar with the public.
Speaker A:The Saudi Arabian like sovereign wealth fund.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, the sovereign wealth fund.
Speaker A:So it's originates from that.
Speaker A:This investment firm, Surge, is like an offshoot of that.
Speaker A:I think they just had.
Speaker A:They just wanted to give somebody a chunk of money to see what they could do.
Speaker A:And these guys, Surge, they've invested in professional fighting, like an MMA style league.
Speaker A:They want to make another one.
Speaker A:What else do they invested in?
Speaker A:A kind of alternative soccer league that's seven aside, very new, innovative, digital friendly.
Speaker A:So these guys are looking for kind of these alternative and emerging kind of sports leagues, markets, what have you.
Speaker A:And they've.
Speaker A:They literally, like I wrote, they have essentially a trillion dollar war chest behind them.
Speaker A:So the 40 mil that they pumped into the T100 is, I don't know.
Speaker B:Drop in the bucket.
Speaker A:Yeah, maybe not even a drop or a massive bucket.
Speaker A:Yeah, essentially.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:And good for the T100 to have that, obviously.
Speaker A:And there was a few other partners as well involved in that now.
Speaker B:Good for the T100.
Speaker B:But at the same time, as you mentioned, they're using that money to pay bonuses from last year.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Which is a red flag.
Speaker B:And the T100 continues to have cash problems.
Speaker B:This resolves those short term cash problems.
Speaker B:But their long term outlook remains I think a big question mark and I don't know that their current model is going to address that question mark.
Speaker B:If they keep having to rely on these cash infusions.
Speaker B:That's not a sustainable business.
Speaker B:Have you heard anything or do you.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:I think insights on that 40 million will go a long way.
Speaker A:I don't really understand like they're talking about these PTO bonus.
Speaker A:So this isn't even.
Speaker A:This isn't like a T100 money.
Speaker A:Like I think they maybe already paid that or something.
Speaker A:But this is.
Speaker A:Do you remember from a few years ago?
Speaker B:This is resolving.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is resolving some of those outstanding pto.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Debts where I'm like why do they even have to pay this PTO money?
Speaker A:Like it doesn't make sense.
Speaker A:Why are you paying these athletes who do Ironman don't even do.
Speaker A:Maybe do one T100 race like a year on bonus.
Speaker A:Like it to me I'm just like what are you doing?
Speaker A:Why you do.
Speaker B:That's why.
Speaker B:That's why their model is something.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think, let me say I don't think they're going to be paying PTO bonuses next year.
Speaker A:I think they're getting rid of that.
Speaker A:Interesting that they would even pay that.
Speaker A:I don't know why.
Speaker A:Maybe they for some reason had to, but doesn't seem like they really had to but good for them investing in the athletes.
Speaker A:I love to see that really this money like it does seem to me Anyways, the T100 does have some good tailwinds.
Speaker A:They really are executing it seems like quite well in these age group races.
Speaker A:They're very well received.
Speaker A:Like everybody who I talked to about Vancouver loved it.
Speaker A:Looking forward to it next year.
Speaker A:It's just a matter of timing.
Speaker A:If they have enough Runway to roll out even more of these.
Speaker A:Because they're going to need more.
Speaker A:Jeff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker B:To be sustainable.
Speaker B:I think they have to.
Speaker A:Is nine races enough to be paying these pro athletes that much money?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Not a chance.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Again, it depends what they want to be.
Speaker B:This is the problem.
Speaker B:I don't think they have given a clear vision of what they want to be.
Speaker B:And getting in bed with the Saudis, having their grand final in Qatar or it's Qatar I think or Dubai.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:They're aiming to have another race In Saudi Arabia, I would assume next year.
Speaker A:So you would have three races in the Arab region, which there's a lot of growth there.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:I think there is opportunity there.
Speaker A:There's obviously a ton of money.
Speaker A:Like think of all these other sports leagues and whatnot.
Speaker A:They're taking the B. I mean, if they want to keep funding those races and stuff, that's great.
Speaker A:Why not?
Speaker A:I think, I mean, it seems like to me T100 is trying to land the plane of getting in the Olympics as a part of this.
Speaker A:And then maybe if they can time it, they can have a money breaking even situation as they get into the Olympics, which would probably provide the organization with maybe some IOC money a little more stability that way.
Speaker A:Like it's.
Speaker A:They're all just trying to figure it out.
Speaker A:They're all hacking away at this vision because they need to figure it out because they're running out of time.
Speaker A:World Triathlon is running out of time to figure out their own future and business model.
Speaker A:And that's why they're getting in with the T100.
Speaker A:And I think, I really think it's possible to make this work if they work together.
Speaker A:But they really, they got to execute.
Speaker B:Well, they gotta execute.
Speaker B:I think it would be great, I think it'd be great if they came out with some kind of statement of this is where we want to go and this is how we're going to go there.
Speaker B:Because right now it just seems like they're casting about one year to the next and you never really know what's going to come next.
Speaker B:And I think athletes would like to have some sense, at least that's my.
Speaker A:Feeling going into next year.
Speaker A:There is, there's some good signs with the Gold coast race already being sold out.
Speaker A:That's a great sign.
Speaker A:You want that?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:From one money story to another, the very acrimonious, the very public airing of grievances amongst two companies that are very big in the world of triathlon.
Speaker B:Let's give a little context here, a little background, shall we?
Speaker B:A couple of years ago.
Speaker B:Now, Tridot, not to be confused with, in my mind, the far superior.
Speaker A:Far superior.
Speaker A:Everyone knows this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Tri Dot, the AI coaching company, signed an agreement with Ironman wherein they agreed to take over Ironman University education for coaching.
Speaker B:And in I guess, some kind of agreement, they were gonna be sponsoring Ironman and would thereby get access to all the start lists for all of the races.
Speaker B:So if you signed up for a 70.3 or an Ironman, you would basically get inundated with all kinds of emails and offers to sign up with tridot for coaching.
Speaker B:Ironman University was redone.
Speaker B:Ironman University in my mind was an excellent coach education platform.
Speaker B:I did that before I did the USAT coaching certification and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker B:I felt like I learned a lot.
Speaker B:I felt like it was good education, I felt like it was really well done.
Speaker B:And then Tridot came around and took it over and unfortunately remade it in its own image so that it became very much a tri dot kind of shill.
Speaker A:What did that look like?
Speaker B:It was a lot of lectures on how does AI coaching work, how does AI coaching help you as a coach, how do you use the Tridot interface, things like that.
Speaker B:My understanding I only recertified with them.
Speaker B:But my understanding is if you actually did the whole thing, like the whole kit and caboodle from the ground up, you did get a lot of the original training as well.
Speaker B:But you were very much encouraged to become a coach on the Tridot platform, which a lot of people didn't like.
Speaker B:And at the time I railed against this, I said two things about it.
Speaker B:I said number one, I thought this was a very shrewd and very smart business move by tridot.
Speaker B:I thought that they were in the right place at the right time and good for them.
Speaker B:And I wish them no success at all because their success was going to be the death knell for a lot of independent coaches.
Speaker B:And I was right because over the subsequent two years a lot of small business coaches have either had been forced to merge and bring their clients over to Tridot or just left the business altogether.
Speaker B:And what I read today on a really nicely summary kind of article on Slow Twitch is that I'm not alone.
Speaker B:And I actually put a post on Instagram about this and got a lot of positive feedback from other coaches who agreed with me saying that good riddance Tridot now that this is all happening because there was a ton of pushback from coaches who were really opposed to the merger between Tridot and Ironman.
Speaker B:So that's the background that Tridot came into this whole thing and that they were very firmly ensconced in Ironman University.
Speaker B:And then a few days ago, my friend Juliette Hoffman, who, she sends me an email or a text message and says, whoa, did you see this email?
Speaker B:And this email basically says from Tridot is just to let you know we're having a little spat with Ironman and Ironman University is on hold and we're going to let you know what's coming.
Speaker B:And as soon As I saw that.
Speaker A:This is from tridot, like they were the first mover in this.
Speaker B:They moved first.
Speaker B:And I said to Juliet, I said if tridot is airing their dirty laundry like this, that shows that there's something bad going on.
Speaker B:They're going to break it off as soon as they can.
Speaker B:It looks to me like they're setting up a way to get out of their contract.
Speaker B:And they worded it about tridot.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We are.
Speaker B:We're not happy with our sponsorship deal with our.
Speaker B:It was something about the quote that.
Speaker A:I saw was unresolved business matters.
Speaker A:And this is from tridot end.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think Ironman.
Speaker A:What did they say?
Speaker A:They said.
Speaker A:They just said this came as a surprise.
Speaker B:Which obviously that's all news to us.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because two days after Juliet sends me that first email, sure enough we get the next one that says Iron Man University is de.
Speaker B:We own, we tridot, we retain ownership of all of the materials.
Speaker B:So basically now it looks like tridot swooped in, took Ironman University, basically took all of the materials and is now cutting bait and just being like we're gonna keep certifying coaches but on our platform because within 24 hours they set up this new entity.
Speaker A:It's like a total endurance.
Speaker A:The total endurance, like coaching or training or something like for Iron Man.
Speaker A:So they've.
Speaker A:Have.
Speaker A:They totally lost all their ironman u.ip like all the videos, all the modules and stuff.
Speaker B:Do you know, they went away anyways because Tri Dot took them down.
Speaker B:So when I did the coaching, most of the videos that were up there were by Lance, our coach, you and me, Matt Dixon, Mark Allen, Paula Newbie Fraser.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then once tridot got involved, Mark Allen was working with tridot and so they slowly started to replace all the videos.
Speaker B:Lance came off right away because he wasn't involved with tridot.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden you started to see Mark Allen doing all the videos and then all they just put.
Speaker B:Basically put their own people in.
Speaker B:I think Kelly Jones works with them.
Speaker B:I can't remember who else does, but they have some other famous Ironman athletes who started basically doing all their videos and so they just replaced all the original stuff.
Speaker B:But yeah, they basically said we own it all.
Speaker B:You won't get Ironman coaching training from Ironman anymore.
Speaker B:Although I'm now hearing that because now Ironman sent something that said, no, we're.
Speaker B:We stand firmly behind Ironman University.
Speaker B:We are going to.
Speaker B:And they obviously own the trademark to the name.
Speaker B:I'm guessing, of course they still have.
Speaker A:That, but I'm curious, do they have this library of videos that they used to have would, let's say, like when did you do the first Ironman?
Speaker A:You like, when did you first Certify with them?
Speaker B:2018.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Do you think those kind of videos, like they could just toss them back up and start?
Speaker B:I doubt they would.
Speaker B:I think they would probably have to start again and that would not be so easy.
Speaker B:No, the question is, do they want to?
Speaker B:I don't know if they want to because they've tried this now a couple of different times and each time they've tried it, they've run into.
Speaker B:It might make sense for them to just pair up with different coaching companies that are large and to just.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know if they're thinking about this.
Speaker B:I also.
Speaker B:We don't know what's going on with Tridot.
Speaker B:We don't know what precipitated this.
Speaker A:Yeah, like why did they pull out?
Speaker A:Is it just because they weren't getting enough leads from Ironman?
Speaker A:They just didn't see this as a fruitful initiative for them, which I don't.
Speaker B:Really understand because they had access to every start list.
Speaker B:They had to be getting athletes.
Speaker B:Cause look, they don't care about coaches.
Speaker B:This is the thing about the Tri dot model.
Speaker B:The coaches to them are, I think, a drag on their business.
Speaker B:What they want are athletes just signing up for their cookie cutter plans, which they call their AI plans and that's where they make their money if they don't have a coach in the middle.
Speaker B:And look, the fact that they actually had a product that was very, that lowered the price barrier for coaching for athletes was a good thing.
Speaker B:I think that's good.
Speaker B:It's hard to generate plans that are across the board and have some personalizability and they seem to have figured a way out to do that.
Speaker B:So good on them.
Speaker B:But it took away what we like to do as coaches, which is to have an interaction with our athletes, to have a relationship with our athletes, to build a program that actually works for an individual athlete.
Speaker B:And the fact that they're now out of that kind of sphere I think is a good thing for us.
Speaker B:But we're going to have to see, like, why did they leave?
Speaker B:I'll tell you my.
Speaker B:I can only speculate, but I would not be surprised if this big cash infusion into T100 ends up being part of it.
Speaker B:Like I won't be surprised if you see Tridot suddenly showing up with T100, those big capital T's and they both have.
Speaker A:There's synergies there.
Speaker B:I wouldn't be.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Suddenly.
Speaker B:Because T100 is always looking to get under Ironman skin too.
Speaker B:And pull T100.
Speaker B:If you pull Tridot away, maybe that's where they'.
Speaker B:Next.
Speaker B:Because Tridot always struck me as they're really not interested in growing the sport so much.
Speaker B:They're not interested in benefiting coaches or athletes.
Speaker B:They're really interested in growing their bottom line.
Speaker B:And again, they're a business.
Speaker B:I get it.
Speaker B:So I don't begrudge them for that.
Speaker B:But I never liked the way they operated in that they really harmed independent coaches and that to me was not okay.
Speaker B:And so now are they just going to maybe T100 just dangled them a bigger sum of money?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:That's me speculating a hundred percent.
Speaker B:I have no insight.
Speaker A:Speculation.
Speaker A:Wild speculation is what we need.
Speaker B:Wild speculation.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, so why not?
Speaker A:I'm curious.
Speaker A:You picture yourself like when you first started coming into the scene.
Speaker A:Obviously there was no AI coaching, but let's say it was an option.
Speaker A:Like, does being associated with Iron man, is that enough of a draw for someone to be like, I'll sign up for this Tri Dot thing because it's got Ironman brand like the Halo around it.
Speaker A:Or for Tridot, do they think that we're gonna be able to stand on our own by getting.
Speaker A:Being able to get these kind of athletes into their system?
Speaker B:But they were on their own before.
Speaker B:They were on their own before and they had all these different methods of getting athletes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They would every fall they would have their quote unquote research project where they would tell people, oh, if you give us three months of your data, we'll give you coaching for three months for free.
Speaker B:It's like their gateway drug.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Okay, interesting.
Speaker B:So they had ways of getting in, but once they got these signup lists, once they had access to everybody signing up for a race, that was a treasure trove of potential signups.
Speaker B:I think what they didn't like is that coaches really detested being told they had to work with Tridot.
Speaker B:They just didn't want to.
Speaker A:This is the AI human struggle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:In another sphere, in another arena.
Speaker A:They don't, they don't like the human coaches.
Speaker A:There's too much friction with human coaches.
Speaker A:They want just people locked in to that platform.
Speaker A:What do you think now?
Speaker A:Like, do you think Tridot will flourish leaving this relationship?
Speaker A:Or do you think it'll just.
Speaker A:It just made sense for them to just get out and then try and Figure something else out.
Speaker B:Until I really know what happened and what precipitated it.
Speaker B:It's hard for me to know.
Speaker B:Uh, it's interesting to.
Speaker B:To learn that Tri Dot didn't have the best reputation from this whole kind of thing because coaches and even athletes were not necessarily totally turned on by this whole proposition of working with them, which is possibly why they decided to cut bait.
Speaker B:But if they end up going over to T100 or if they end up doing something like, I don't understand, like, there's gotta be something, like, they couldn't have just decided that this wasn't worth it for them because I just.
Speaker B:That doesn't make sense.
Speaker B:Like just sponsorship alone.
Speaker B:Seems to me not to.
Speaker B:I just don't get it.
Speaker A:I'd love to know the terms of the contract.
Speaker A:Was there just like a out clause if they weren't generating X amount of revenue?
Speaker A:Definitely.
Speaker A:In the court of public opinion, it feels like tridot is getting their grave dance on.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:It's not their grave, but it's getting danced on, so to speak.
Speaker B:It's getting.
Speaker B:They're getting danced on for sure.
Speaker B:And I think until we know more about why and what's next for them, it's hard to know.
Speaker B:But it is interesting to see how many people have been celebrating their departure.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Which I didn't know.
Speaker B:That I didn't know.
Speaker B:I've been sitting by myself quietly on my own show, taking little digs at them, but at the same time, like, thinking I was alone.
Speaker B:And now I realize, no, I had all this company.
Speaker A:They might not be that great of an AI company if they.
Speaker A:They don't have an army of AI bots on social media pumping their tires.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:They should have that locked in, right?
Speaker A:If they're truly AI.
Speaker B:Funny thing is, the funny thing is that the big joke was the first rule about tridot is to never shut up about tridot.
Speaker B:And you knew an athlete was with Tridot because they just never stopped talking about it.
Speaker B:They were probably for that.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I didn't know if it was a pyramid scheme or what it was like to try and recruit people into Tridot all the time.
Speaker B:Like maybe they got a month of free coaching for everybody they brought in.
Speaker B:Who knew?
Speaker B:But yeah, it was always interesting how the people and the people who were in it were not like the most accomplished athletes.
Speaker B:They tended to be mostly people who enjoy doing triathlons and had not completed races.
Speaker A:But there's a market for that, for sure.
Speaker B:It seemed to be the.
Speaker B:Oh, 100%.
Speaker B:And I would never listen.
Speaker B:A lot of my athletes are like that and I love working with them.
Speaker B:It brings them great pleasure and me great pleasure.
Speaker B:But they.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker B:It's interesting.
Speaker B:So it.
Speaker B:To be continued.
Speaker B:I look forward to seeing where it all goes and I'm sure we'll revisit this over time.
Speaker A:Do you think now, like if you were Iron man and this happened, do you think you'd.
Speaker A:You'd plunge headlong into making new iron manu content or would you just maybe, I don't know, partner with.
Speaker A:Like you said, partner with successful coaches?
Speaker B:If I was Scott, I would call me nice and yeah, I'm just gonna put it out there.
Speaker A:If he's listening.
Speaker A:I could be.
Speaker B:You never know if he's listening.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or maybe not me, but certainly Lance.
Speaker B:Lance, Matt.
Speaker B:Like those guys did not go to Tridot for a reason.
Speaker B:And those guys, they were Ironman master coaches for a reason.
Speaker B:And they are great wealths of knowledge and resource and would be terrific people to bring back into the fold and to.
Speaker B:If Ironman wants to reestablish a coaching certification pathway, which I'd love it if they did, but honestly, do they.
Speaker B:They have to decide if that's something they want to do, if it'll make.
Speaker A:Them money and they can see, then it's just a matter of like how much it's going to cost to do.
Speaker A:But once you make those videos and modules and stuff, then you just have them on file and if you get people in the door, then that's pretty easy.
Speaker A:Pretty easy margin for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think right now the market is ready for it because people are so not happy with Tridot that if you put up a parallel.
Speaker B:If you put up a parallel Ironman University, I think people will go to it.
Speaker B:So there's an opportunity here.
Speaker B:Anyways, let's move on.
Speaker B:I think we've talked this one to death for now, but I look forward to learning more and revisiting the subject as we learn more.
Speaker B:But let's finish up with this study that you sent me today.
Speaker B:I think it was really interesting.
Speaker B:It was a study that was focused on heat acclimation and how heat acclimation can actually lower carbohydrate oxidation of trained runners.
Speaker B:Not gonna get too much into the weeds here, but basically they took two groups of trained runners.
Speaker B:They had one group of runners do four weeks of training at regular normal.
Speaker A:That was the control group.
Speaker B:Ambient temperatures.
Speaker B:That was the control group.
Speaker B:And I wanna point out this is a very small study.
Speaker B:It was like nine people in one group, nine people in the other.
Speaker B:And it was all.
Speaker B:So it's only.
Speaker B:Only men.
Speaker B:And then the other nine did a heat acclimation protocol where they were training at pretty high wet bulb temperatures.
Speaker B:And they did this over four weeks.
Speaker B:And then at the end, they all were subjected to a treadmill test with a.
Speaker B:In a heated, humid environment.
Speaker B:And they measured their core temperatures.
Speaker B:They measured all kinds of different metrics.
Speaker B:And one of the things they measured was their VO2 max and their ability to metabol carbohydrates, which is interesting.
Speaker B:Now, one of the limitations they pointed out in the study is that they didn't measure these things directly, they measured them indirectly.
Speaker B:I'm not going to get into all of that, but it is a limitation.
Speaker B:And basically what they found was if you were in this heat acclimation group, if you did the heat adaptation protocol, you did better, which is not surprising.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Your core temperature tended to stay lower when you did the test.
Speaker B:You sweated less if you did the heat acclimation and your VO2 max did better.
Speaker B:You actually metabolized carbohydrates more efficiently in the heated test than you did if you did not had the heat acclimation.
Speaker B:And basically their conclusions were that people who heat acclimate train their mitochondria to be more efficient at a higher temperature, use muscle glycogen more efficiently, use less calories for the same amount of energy produced.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's one.
Speaker B:It's just like a way to improve your ability to be more economical as a runner in heat.
Speaker B:So I thought it was really interesting small study, this.
Speaker A:I feel like we're seeing a lot more information on heat.
Speaker A:Positive information, like we talked about a while back, is like with this one heat study, talking about how it was more effective than altitude training than altitude.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It just seems like heat has some momentum right now.
Speaker A:Like seeing the results of the study, I guess they probably didn't surprise you that much.
Speaker B:It didn't surprise me because we know that people who do heat acclimation, they improve their ability to perform.
Speaker B:I think what this study just tells us is this is just explaining one of the reasons why.
Speaker B:So we know that when you do heat acclimation, you increase your total body water so that your cardiac output is improved so that you don't need to have as much of a cardiac stress when you're in heat.
Speaker B:We know that your sweat glands change, they change how much salt they put in the sweat, and they change how much they actually produce in terms of sweat.
Speaker B:So that's another reason why you perform better when you're heat adapted.
Speaker B:And then this is just one more reason.
Speaker B:You are better able to metabolize sugars, better able to metabolize your glycogen from your cells, and you are more economical.
Speaker B:And remember, being economical at exercise means that you are more efficiently burning and utilizing energy from burning fuels.
Speaker B:It's just, I think it's just one more interesting study that gives us a rationale for why heat acclimation works.
Speaker A:So when you're out there, say you're out there on the track yesterday, you're just, you're acclimating, you're even though it's quite hot out there.
Speaker A:Oh, you're getting those gas.
Speaker B:But the one thing, but I'll tell you, the one thing that would have been really interesting is if they had the same people do the stuff, do the test at a more regular temperature, 20 degrees Celsius.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Because does.
Speaker B:What I want to know is, does the heat adaptation then result in better running economy in lower temperatures?
Speaker B:Because what we've seen from some of the other heat adaptation studies is that the benefits, the physiologic benefits you get from heat adaptation translate to when you train in lower temperatures.
Speaker B:And what I want to know is, does this glycogen utilization also translate to lower temperatures?
Speaker B:Because if it does, that would be really interesting and important and that would be good to know.
Speaker B:They did not do that in this study.
Speaker B:That's really too bad.
Speaker A:I'm curious for you with your athletes, do you prescribe heat training?
Speaker A:Is there a certain level that an athlete's at where you'd give them heat training?
Speaker B:If I have an athlete who's going to do a race in a hotter environment than when they live, then I do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:If I have an athlete who's doing a race in a hot environment and they live in a hot environment, then I try to get them to train in hotter parts of the day, carefully.
Speaker B:Because I am very acutely aware of the dangers of training too much or too hard in the heat.
Speaker B:So I'm very cautious about making sure that I don't expose my athletes to that kind of danger from heat exposure.
Speaker B:But at the same time, I want them to get that heat adaptation.
Speaker B:So we definitely talk about it.
Speaker B:And if they live somewhere where it's not hot, then we do this on a protocol.
Speaker A:Just adding in heat if you're not used to it is definitely a massive stress.
Speaker A:So you have to tread a little carefully with that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:That or hot.
Speaker B:It's the second time I did that to you today.
Speaker A:These dad jokes are hitting today.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's another episode of Tempo Talks that coming to a warm and humid end.
Speaker B:And if you enjoyed it, if you didn't enjoy it, we hope that you will let us know if you enjoyed it.
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Speaker B:We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker B:We've had some very robust discussions on there in the last week or so.
Speaker B:From our last episode, people really chipping in on their thoughts about Race Ranger and about race locations, which I really enjoyed seeing people give their opinions on that.
Speaker B:That was great.
Speaker A:And as a side, I had James Elvery, the co founder of Race Ranger, reach out after the episode and he's essentially looking for any kind of feedback on what Race Ranger could look like in the age group field.
Speaker A:So if people are out there and they've got ideas, send them our way and we'll get them to James.
Speaker A:He's a listener of this podcast.
Speaker B:James is awesome.
Speaker B:I've had him as a guest on my podcast a couple of times and he's really looking to improve the sport for everybody.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I would take that invitation and yeah, let us know.
Speaker B:We'll definitely reach out to him.
Speaker B:All right, Matt, next week I am scuba diving in Bonaire, but we are going to do an episode all the same.
Speaker B:So I will join you from the Caribbean and we will have an episode of Tempo Talks for you next week.
Speaker B:Until then, Matt, thanks a lot.
Speaker B:It's been great.
Speaker B:We'll talk to you later.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker A:Another good one.
Speaker A:Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker C:Tempo Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub along with the Tridoc podcast and is produced and edited by the amazing and talented Lauren Sancoff.
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