Tempo Talks; Race recaps, AI as a coach and riding on the roads, worth the risk?
In this podcast episode, we explore the dynamic interplay between professional triathletes and the intricacies of coaching, particularly in the context of recent competitive events. The discussion begins with a thorough analysis of the notable pro races that transpired over the weekend, highlighting the unexpected outcomes and exceptional performances that characterized these competitions. We further delve into the implications of artificial intelligence in coaching, questioning whether AI could potentially supplant human coaches or merely serve as an augmentative tool. Additionally, we engage in a sobering dialogue regarding the safety of outdoor cycling, reflecting on personal experiences and the overarching risks associated with this beloved activity. Ultimately, this episode seeks to illuminate the multifaceted nature of triathlon, the evolving role of technology within the sport, and the critical importance of maintaining safety and skill development for athletes.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
What would happen if you brought together a professional triathlete and producer of one of the most widely read triathlon newsletters.
Speaker B:Together with the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at LifeSport coaching.
Speaker A:Let's say you had the makings of a pretty good podcast.
Speaker B:Welcome to Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:Two perspectives, one sport.
Speaker B:All things triathlon.
Speaker B:Hello.
Speaker B:Hello.
Speaker B:We are back for another episode of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:I'm your host, one of your hosts, Matthew Sharp.
Speaker B:And I'm here with Dr.
Speaker B:Jeffrey Senkoff.
Speaker B:Jeff, great to be back.
Speaker B:How are you doing today?
Speaker A:I'm doing awesome, Matt.
Speaker A:We had a lot of really great feedback people reaching out about our conversation last week on dnf.
Speaker A:So I heard a lot of interesting comments.
Speaker A:I thought that was a really good conversation.
Speaker A:It certainly engendered a lot of thoughtful feedback.
Speaker B:So it's not just all about DNF or death is what we came up with.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And I also think that it was a lot of kind of introspection, I think for people to realize that it's so different for pros and age groupers.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was good.
Speaker B:Very cool.
Speaker A:We are, what, just a little over a week away from Boulder.
Speaker A:70.3.
Speaker A:The weather continues to be on the chilly side, which means only one thing.
Speaker A:It'll be like 110 on race day.
Speaker B:It has to.
Speaker B:We've.
Speaker B:Yeah, we.
Speaker B:Yesterday was very cold.
Speaker B:I was on the pool deck.
Speaker B:It's an outdoor pool with a full on parka setup and actually started swimming in the wetsuit.
Speaker B:By race day it'll be crazy hot.
Speaker B:I'm sure we'll get that contrast and everybody will be pushed to their limits in every way.
Speaker B:It's great.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:What else?
Speaker A:What else is new?
Speaker A:Speaking of push to the limits, we've got a great lineup of topics to discuss today.
Speaker A:We are going to cover the pro races that took place over the weekend.
Speaker A:There was a lot of excitement in both San Francisco and in Hamburg.
Speaker A:So we are going to cover both of those events.
Speaker A:Records set across the pond.
Speaker A:The exciting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Then we are going to talk about some new AI coaching advances things.
Speaker A:Something that I never cease to want to talk about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The clickbait title being will I eliminate Coaching?
Speaker B:So you got to have it.
Speaker A:Anybody who listens to the Tridoc podcast is going to know how I feel about this.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker A:We'll get into the other side and we'll finish up with maybe a little somber conversation about riding outdoors.
Speaker A:I had a long ride outdoors.
Speaker A:I texted you as soon as I Was done to say I had survived, which I took a win.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But not a great sentiment.
Speaker A:And so we wanted to talk about riding outside.
Speaker A:Is it still a worthwhile endeavor?
Speaker A:Is it still something we need to do?
Speaker A:So we are going to talk about all three of those things.
Speaker A:But let's begin with a recap of the races that took place on the weekend.
Speaker A:They were full of excitement, some surprises.
Speaker A:Let's start with the T100 in San Francisco.
Speaker B:T100, San Francisco.
Speaker B:We'll start with the men's race.
Speaker B:And it's this escape from Alcatraz adjacent event that the T100 does.
Speaker B:So it's a similar format where they're jumping off the boat.
Speaker B:It was actually beautiful visuals from the event.
Speaker B:The sun was just coming up.
Speaker B:You could see the Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz, and then these athletes jumping off a boat to start their race.
Speaker B:I, I just thought it was really cool and definitely a good reason for them to continue doing the.
Speaker A:Good spectacle.
Speaker A:Good spectacle.
Speaker A:And that's what you need for this kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:You need.
Speaker B:This is great media.
Speaker B:So in this men's race, really because of these currents that they have, I think last year the swim was 14 minutes.
Speaker B:This year a little longer.
Speaker B:I think it was about 16 minutes, but still shorter than it typically would be for a 2K swim.
Speaker B:And basically all the men were together coming out of the water.
Speaker B:Really not much separation.
Speaker B:I think the biggest separation ironically happened from the run out of the water to T1 because it was about a kilometer or so long, which sounds brutal.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:And it's on variable terrain.
Speaker A:So it really takes them.
Speaker A:It takes them up like a ramp and sand and kinds of things to contend with.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And definitely maybe that was the first challenge of the day instead of the swim.
Speaker B:But then onto the bike it would became carnage.
Speaker B:And these T100 men's races, this happens every time.
Speaker B:These guys get on the bike and they just smash it.
Speaker B:And some athletes are ready to be to smash and some just get smashed.
Speaker B:And we saw really a few athletes go to the four pretty quickly.
Speaker B:Rico Bogan, who is a former 70.3 world champion, he's had some great T100 results last year, put himself at the front alongside yellow Geins from Belgium.
Speaker B:Martin Van Real from Belgium was up there, guys who we would expect to be near the front, especially at the end of the race.
Speaker B:You also had Kyle Smith there from New Zealand who is coming back and a guy who was on the podium last year in San Francisco.
Speaker B:Really you had some really strong athletes.
Speaker B:Pushing at the front, the guys behind were losing time.
Speaker B:And I think it was maybe just before halfway or so where Bogan just decided to go out of his own and really started cranking down the pace.
Speaker B:And by the end of the bike, I think he had just over two minutes to the next athlete, which was Jamie Riddle and Jelle Ganes of Belgium.
Speaker B:Bogan put on a clinic on the bike, but this guy maybe not known for his run prowess.
Speaker B:Like he came off the bike with Hayden Wilde in Singapore earlier this year and quickly just faded through the field a bit.
Speaker B:But not this time.
Speaker A:Matt, how about you've done these races.
Speaker A:It seems small, the differences.
Speaker A:The swim's 100 meters longer, which is clearly nothing, but then the bike is 10k shorter and the run is 3k shorter.
Speaker A:So you're talking a six mile difference on the bike and a two mile difference on the run.
Speaker A:How much is that a difference for these guys?
Speaker A:Because I know it doesn't sound numerically like a huge difference, but if you're a short course athlete, that is coming down to your kind of distances a little.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know what it is about this 100 kilometer distance versus the half Ironman distance.
Speaker B:It just seems like it engenders just more intense racing, especially on the bike.
Speaker B:Like, it's almost like these guys are just going all in on the bike and then seeing what they get on the run.
Speaker B:I don't think we see any impressive run splits coming out of these T1, any of these T100 races.
Speaker B:It's more just like how fast these guys are biking and how much pain they're inflicting on each other.
Speaker B:Just maybe that's because it's a little bit shorter.
Speaker B:I think maybe you have a lot of short course athletes who have this mindset of really pushing hard, like through the entire race.
Speaker B:So they're just bringing that mentality to the T100.
Speaker B:Something like that, I think is what it is.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker A:But anyways, yeah, run.
Speaker A:And Rico Bogan really just held on.
Speaker B:Just throughout the entire run, was looking solid, held a strong pace, and I think in the end he won by just over a minute or so over Yellow Gin, who really wasn't that far behind starting the run.
Speaker B:You almost anticipated Yella to come back on him, but as the K's rolled on, the gap wasn't getting close enough.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:And so Bogan, he essentially had, I would say, the run of his life in that race to take the win, which was just bloody impressive, considering, I think at the end, I saw a clip or a post saying he averaged 375 watts for 80k.
Speaker A:My goodness.
Speaker A:We're talking.
Speaker A:It's not, obviously, even if his power.
Speaker B:Meter is reading a little high.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's not what we saw in the Giro, but it's not far off for some of these pro cyclists.
Speaker B:So that's the Giro, guys.
Speaker B:They can't swim like him.
Speaker B:They can't.
Speaker A:Of course not.
Speaker A:Rico Bogan, when he won 70.3 worlds a couple of years ago, I think everybody was like, who?
Speaker A:And I know I was.
Speaker A:And I think I'm less surprised now to see his name.
Speaker A:But he does still strike me as an under the radar guy because he doesn't win regularly, and when he does win, he wins impressively.
Speaker A:So it's interesting.
Speaker A:I can't put my finger on exactly what to expect from him on any given day.
Speaker B:And that 70.3 worlds he won, that was sort of an anomaly.
Speaker B:There was a lot of T100 guys who were sick coming off of that and couldn't race that race.
Speaker B:So the field, it just wasn't the same as, like, a typical World Championships field like we saw last year in New Zealand.
Speaker B:But I think now he.
Speaker B:Obviously, he won that race, and that was great.
Speaker B:But I don't even know if that put the belief in him that he could do that again, knowing the field wasn't.
Speaker B:That wasn't as competitive.
Speaker B:But after, you know, seeing him podium at the end of last season in T100 and now starting off the year with this win, really, I think he now has that belief, and that's just gonna lift his performance consistently to another level.
Speaker B:And I think going into Vancouver, he's definitely one to watch for the win now.
Speaker A:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:How'd Jake do?
Speaker B:Jake, he didn't have the best race.
Speaker B:The guy who was staying with us before the race, I think he was.
Speaker B:He said he was felt a little flat, so I.
Speaker B:And I text him after.
Speaker B:I was like, hey, how you doing?
Speaker B:What happened?
Speaker B:And, yeah, he said he felt a little flat, but he's excited to have another go in Vancouver in a couple weeks.
Speaker B:So I think maybe go home, back to Australia, take a big flight or two, and then regroup and be ready to go.
Speaker A:Nothing like a lot of jet lag to recover.
Speaker A:Let's talk about what happened on the women's side.
Speaker A:A real surprise where Taylor Knibb was not the winner.
Speaker B:It's funny because we both last week were like, hey, she's probably going to win, but if she doesn't win.
Speaker B:This person might win and that person did win to go through the race.
Speaker B:Like in the men's race, there was a bit more separation in the women's field coming out of the water.
Speaker B:But again, the top favorites, Nib, Kate Woff.
Speaker B:Kate Whoa.
Speaker B:We're gonna go with Kate Whoa.
Speaker B:That's the pronunciation.
Speaker B:Kate Whoa.
Speaker B:Julie Darin, Ashley Gentle was, I think a little further off, but she was.
Speaker A:Saying she didn't feel like she had a good day at all.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It's someone who's.
Speaker B:She's struggling firing right now.
Speaker B:No, but yeah, definitely the talent.
Speaker B:A lot of the talent was all together out of the water and really it almost seemed like Nib was just stuck in maybe a lower gear.
Speaker B:Like it took her a while to actually get to the front of the race.
Speaker B:Even though she exited the water with the leaders, she was a little further back coming out of T1.
Speaker B:Took her a while to catch up to Darren and Wa and Jessica Learmouth, who were the leaders through the first little bit of the bike.
Speaker B:And when she.
Speaker B:When Nib continued onto the bike like last year, she had four minutes coming off the bike.
Speaker B:It was one of the best performances of her of her year last year.
Speaker B:But through this race this year, she just could not establish, I would say, like a meaningful enough gap for her.
Speaker B:I don't know if you saw any of that.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:But I was thinking a lot about what you said last week about how she is dedicating herself to the Ironman distance.
Speaker A:And when you do that, it's a lot more volume, it's a lot more putting time into miles and less time into speed.
Speaker A:And you wondered, you opined, if that might be having an effect on her shorter course racing.
Speaker A:Now you look at someone like Kat Matthews who seems to not have a problem doing short or long, but for someone like Taylor, who has spent her whole career doing short, who is now transitioning to long, I can imagine that for her it would make a difference not doing as much of the high intensity stuff that she would do.
Speaker A:And I think maybe that's what we're seeing.
Speaker B:And this was also her first T100 middle distance race of the year.
Speaker B:Like she started the year with Texas about a month ago.
Speaker B:And so she just doesn't have maybe that intensity feeling in her body, like just that, that feeling that you get when you do your first race like that.
Speaker B:So maybe she's missing that.
Speaker A:We're talking about her as though she had a terrible result.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:For her, when you're used to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:That result isn't as good in the end.
Speaker A:Look too disappointed though.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I think maybe she knows that she wasn't really fully dialed for this race and that's fine.
Speaker B:Coming off the bike, she only had a minute or so of a gap ahead of Julie Darren and she was the person who I said if she's within striking distance, she could potentially beat Taylor.
Speaker B:And fairly early on in the run she went by her and that was it.
Speaker B:And Darren got her first T100 win.
Speaker B:She had some podiums earlier last year.
Speaker B:This is her first win and really a great sign for her as she heads into the rest of the year.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that's Taylor's kind of Achilles heel, is if she's not got enough of a gap.
Speaker A:And this is the Lucy Charles Barkley model.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like Lucy Charles Barkley also swims and bikes off the front and then hangs on for the run.
Speaker A:And I guess that's really where Taylor has to round out her game and try to see if she can establish.
Speaker B:More of a.
Speaker B:Yeah, been in Vancouver.
Speaker B:So for the next one, I think Lucy Charles is going to be there.
Speaker B:I think Taylor's going to be there as well.
Speaker B:So maybe having them together could create a little more separation.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'd like to see that.
Speaker B:I'd like to see that.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:So, yeah, great racing.
Speaker B:I thought it was the T100.
Speaker B:Watching the races, the part of the races that I did like, their broadcast was solid.
Speaker B:Just better than Ironman, like consistently better.
Speaker B:I thought the visuals and stuff were awesome.
Speaker B:I hope they bring that to that race because it's just cool to see them jumping off the boat.
Speaker A:It's a beautiful location too.
Speaker A:San Francisco is just a beautiful city.
Speaker A:If you're going to have a city race, that's a good city to have it in.
Speaker A:But let's jump across the Atlantic all the way over to Europe and Hamburg where we saw just an unbelievable rematch from the race that we had in Nice last year where Laura Philipp just would not be denied.
Speaker A:Kat Matthews laid down an incredible swim bike and Laura just stayed with us within striking distance and had the run of her life.
Speaker A:Just incredible.
Speaker B:Yeah, I called it like the new Iron War in the newsletter.
Speaker B:I think if it's fitting, because they were essentially going blow for blow, this was a full title fight between these two.
Speaker B:It was an incredible race to just observe, like they came out of the water together in the swim, essentially biked together and if you look at the timing, kind of splits and stuff, like they're swapping the lead clearly.
Speaker B:Like it's not just somebody just parked behind.
Speaker B:It's not like Laura's just parked behind Cat as she's ripping through the bike.
Speaker B:Like they're working almost together, pushing the pace on the bike and then onto the run.
Speaker B:I know Cat broke away in the final bit of the bike.
Speaker B:So she had a bit of a gap.
Speaker A:She had a bit of that.
Speaker A:Yeah, just a little.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker B:And then it's starting to get reeled in a bit, I think by AK Philip had pulled back 30 seconds of a 50 second gap.
Speaker B:She was almost there, but then Kat had another wind or something and she brought it back out to over 40 seconds.
Speaker B:Like it seemed like she was pulling away slowly.
Speaker B:But then again, Laura had one more knockout punch in her.
Speaker B:She caught up to cap.
Speaker B:They're like at whatever 10k to go.
Speaker A:By her so fast.
Speaker A:It was pretty amazing.
Speaker A:And the two of them were running.
Speaker A:Like when you look at them on the broadcast running, they look like they're running.
Speaker A:Running a 10k.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, their form is incredible.
Speaker A:Blasting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they were just blasting.
Speaker A:And do you have a sense, I, I don't know if.
Speaker A:Do you have any sense of whether or not the two of them have any kind of personal relationship?
Speaker A:Because often when one passes another they will say something.
Speaker A:But Laura passed Kat almost like two body people apart and they didn't even acknowledge each other, which I thought was surprising.
Speaker B:These guys have had some big battles over the years, so I don't think there's any love lost between them, I wouldn't say.
Speaker B:And I haven't heard of them having any actual bad blood.
Speaker A:There's no animosity.
Speaker B:It's no animosity, just pure competitive.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like I think Kat, she's.
Speaker B:When she got past, she was focused on her race and maybe she was really struggling and didn't want to even give Laura a chance to assess what was going on because you're just in the heat of the moment.
Speaker B:But really, to me it doesn't seem like there's much bad blood.
Speaker B:I think that's just.
Speaker B:They're just ruthlessly competitive and it just make.
Speaker B:Made for an incredible spectacle.
Speaker A:And then for.
Speaker A:I don't really put much stock in these records.
Speaker A:Laura's time was an Iron man record for women.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, I didn't catch.
Speaker A:What was her marathon time?
Speaker B:It was 2:36, I think, which.
Speaker B:Or 238.
Speaker B:A 238 marathon off the bike.
Speaker A:Oh, that's incredible.
Speaker A:She's really establishing herself as quite a force and when you think about some of the favorites in the sport, I don't know why she doesn't always leap to mind as one of the top.
Speaker A:Maybe just because she's European and we don't give a lot of press to the European women, but, man, she is something else.
Speaker B:She hasn't won Kona, correct?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So once you win Kona, which could happen this year, it's shaping up to be her year, really.
Speaker B:There's a few of them who have a great chance, but she's putting her hand, especially after this race, she's put her hand up to say, hey, I'm the top dog.
Speaker B:Come and get me.
Speaker B:Because really, the race was flawlessly executed.
Speaker A:Really amazing stuff.
Speaker A:It was really terrific.
Speaker A:And I don't think there's much on tap this weekend.
Speaker A:I think we have a kind of a week off and then we're back to big racing next weekend when we have Vancouver, T100, we have Boulder.
Speaker A:And I know there are some races without pro fields like in Pennsylvania and some other stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, one of the things too, that I wrote about in the newsletter was just like, I just.
Speaker B:The T100, they can't really catch a break in some ways.
Speaker B:Like both these races in Singapore and in San Francisco were really well done, Executed some solid racing, but both kind of got overshadowed by Ironman races.
Speaker A:Again, I say this, the schedule for Ironman is out long in advance.
Speaker A:All they have to do is had they scheduled T100 San Francisco for this coming weekend, they would have had it all to themselves.
Speaker A:And it's not that hard to figure it out, but they continue to.
Speaker A:I blame Sam Ranuf 100% because he.
Speaker A:He says, oh, no, we're not going head to head.
Speaker A:And yet he goes head to head.
Speaker B:Has he said that?
Speaker A:He came on my podcast and said, we're not going head to head.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker A:But that's a while ago.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:But man, he is just continuously pitching against them, and I don't understand why.
Speaker A:If you want to distinguish yourself, you have to get out of the shadow and put yourself.
Speaker A:Anyways, I keep.
Speaker A:Yes, nobody listens to me on this.
Speaker B:They should talk to you for sure.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:So I think it's.
Speaker B:I think Vancouver's gonna have its moment in the sun.
Speaker A:I think Vancouver is going to be another beautiful course.
Speaker A:So, yes, yes.
Speaker B:So hopefully they can luck out that way.
Speaker A:All right, last I checked, many pro athletes coach themselves.
Speaker A:Other ones have actual coaches.
Speaker A:You yourself have an actual coach.
Speaker B:I have an actual coach.
Speaker A:The same coach who I employ.
Speaker A:And I just want to say that I am not familiar with any professional triathletes who utilize an AI coach.
Speaker A:That being said, it's the subject, the bane of my existence, this AI coaching platform, the one who sounds much like my Tridoc podcast.
Speaker A:They have taken over the world.
Speaker A:And you yourself were telling me that you've done some add.
Speaker B:We've got some opportunities with an AI kind of forward company, which it's exciting.
Speaker B:But really, this whole segment, I think what we can get into is whether you think AI will eliminate coaching.
Speaker A:Okay, I've been on record for a while now saying 100 no and okay.
Speaker B:So break it down.
Speaker A:I will break it down as follows.
Speaker A:First of all, I don't love try.com and their business practices, and I won't go into great lengths about this.
Speaker A:But right now they've got this whole advertising campaign which is train less.
Speaker A:And I'm like, that's not really the best advertising.
Speaker A:Like telling people that AI is going to make you train less.
Speaker A:Okay, fine, some people probably do train too much, and some people need to know that they can train less.
Speaker A:But telling people that AI is going to make you train less, I'm not sure is really the best messaging you want to have.
Speaker A:The other thing about AI is that AI cannot replace a coach in all of the things that a coach does.
Speaker A:In terms of the conversations I have with my athletes, talking them off a ledge, telling them when it is important to rest, telling them when it's important to go hard, looking at their workouts and giving them more than just AI hallucinations, but giving them actual interpretation of what they did and helping them understand equipment, helping them understand preparation for a race.
Speaker A:I could go on and on, but I do think that it's pretty hard to replace everything that an actual human being brings to this.
Speaker A:Now.
Speaker A:Can AI do certain things better than I can?
Speaker A:Probably, without a doubt it can.
Speaker A:But I'm not sure that AI is ready to replace coaches.
Speaker A:I hope that it never will replace coaches.
Speaker A:I think that it probably will get to a point where it can augment coaches.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker B:So do you think maybe there's a certain level of coach that could be replaced, though, almost an entry level coach?
Speaker B:Because you've been coaching for a while, you have a roster of athletes, you have credibility but for an emerging coach, do you think it could replace someone like that?
Speaker A:The problem then is how does that emerging coach become the experienced coach?
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:I didn't start as who I am.
Speaker A:I started as an emerging coach who had to work with one or two athletes and learn the ropes as much as anything else.
Speaker A:And if we displace or replace all of the emerging coaches with AI, then we're not going to have the experienced coaches.
Speaker A:Because invariably what I have found is I have seen more and more athletes who are coming to me saying, I've used AI platform coaching platforms.
Speaker B:Oh, nice.
Speaker A:I am hitting a ceiling.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm hitting a ceiling or it's not working for me.
Speaker A:I feel like I need a person.
Speaker A:And so that's what I'm getting now in terms of athletes.
Speaker A:But I don't doubt that a lot of athletes who are new to multisport are going to these AI platforms because they're cheaper and because they think that they're going to get.
Speaker A:Because they don't recognize what a coach actually brings to the table.
Speaker B:I wonder if it's.
Speaker B:If these AI platforms then could almost be a bit of a funnel in some ways to coaches like you, where, yeah, a new athlete comes in, say they just want to do their first triathlon, they see this program that's tailored to them.
Speaker B:Given they're inputting certain data, it's gonna, you know, eventually be able to just take all their data and create a program based on the inputs they're putting in.
Speaker B:Eventually, then maybe it'll hit that ceiling and then it will.
Speaker B:People will start looking for folks like yourself.
Speaker B:Potentially, yes.
Speaker A:But I would argue that a beginner athlete has more of a need for an experienced coach than anybody else.
Speaker A:The beginner athlete know nothing.
Speaker A:They have more questions.
Speaker A:When I work with beginner athletes, I spend more time answering basic questions, helping them understand equipment choices, helping them understand how to understand the process of training for a triathlon, which an AI platform will never do.
Speaker B:But could they not ask the AI those questions, freeing up your time for when they maybe come in with.
Speaker B:With deeper questions around their context of their lives?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:It just seems, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:There's the potential.
Speaker B:There could be the potential to just save coaches like yourself some, A bit of time so that you can put more effort and time into the programming and just the human aspect of coaching.
Speaker A:What I have heard and what intrigues me is people have said, oh, AI can do a lot of the heavy lifting of Coaching in terms of helping you write the program.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And that is interesting to me to understand how that might be helpful.
Speaker A:But I will say that I put a lot of thought into my athletes programs.
Speaker A:Like I individualize every single athlete that I have.
Speaker A:I have 15, 16 athletes and I spend a lot of time individualizing their programs because I understand each of them and I want each of them to get a certain thing out of each week.
Speaker A:And I actually enjoy developing and designing their program.
Speaker A:And if the AI was doing it somehow for me, I.
Speaker A:I don't know if I would get less enjoyment.
Speaker A:Would it take me less time?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Would the athletes be getting the same kind of structure and process?
Speaker A:I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker A:I haven't tried it.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, I definitely agree with you that the human component of coaching, like, I just don't.
Speaker B:I don't see the AI kind of getting rid of that unless we all turn into that movie her or the guy falls in love with his chat bot.
Speaker A:So look, I'm not a Luddite, right?
Speaker A:I use a lot of technology.
Speaker A:I make use of it all the time.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker B:I think technology use like AI tools, like in everyday life.
Speaker A:I use ChatGPT.
Speaker A:I don't use it every day.
Speaker A:So I will use it to help.
Speaker A:For example, when I'm writing show notes for this podcast and for my own podcast, I will use AI for that.
Speaker A:I will use AI for other kinds of things.
Speaker A:If I have to write a letter or something, I will sometimes use AI not to write the letter, but to give me the structure.
Speaker A:I do worry about AI.
Speaker A:I don't know if you've seen this video going around of the Google AI video of.
Speaker B:Yes, the VO3, that model.
Speaker A:Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:And her, which was the Spike Jonze movie with Joaquin Phoenix and Scarlett Johansson plays the voice of this AI operating system.
Speaker A:@ the time I saw the movie, I remember thinking, I don't think we're too far away from that.
Speaker A:And I almost think we're there now where we are going to replace human interactions with our interactions with these artificial intelligence bots.
Speaker A:You see it on Facebook, you see it on all of your social media, where you can develop an AI person that you can interact with because you don't know how to interact with a human being.
Speaker A:That is terrifying to me.
Speaker B:So when you ask maybe coaches who work with kind of millennials and older are going to be okay, but then once, I don't know, the younger generations, they're all using AI, then I don't know, maybe that's the inflection point.
Speaker B:Who knows?
Speaker A:It does worry me.
Speaker A:You know what happens in her right at the end.
Speaker B:I didn't watch it.
Speaker A:Oh, you should watch it.
Speaker A:You should watch.
Speaker A:I don't hate to give away a spoiler, but at the end of that movie, the AI decides humans aren't worth it.
Speaker B:Oh, boy.
Speaker A:Yeah, not in a destructive way like in so many other.
Speaker A:Not in Terminator way, but anyways.
Speaker B:Yeah, I guess to me it feels like the human coaches, they just have an edge in terms of these relationships.
Speaker B:Like you said, talking to your athletes and developing these relationships, I think that's what coaches have over or AI and whatnot.
Speaker B:It's just as time goes on, there's just going to be coaches probably using it more.
Speaker B:I feel like you'll end up probably using it more over time as you find it more effective for what you're doing.
Speaker B:Definitely an interesting train of thought and something to think about.
Speaker B:Anyways.
Speaker A:It is.
Speaker A:Listen, I have an athlete who works for Microsoft in the AI space and he's constantly telling me how AI is coming and it's going to make my life better.
Speaker A:And I am.
Speaker A:I am just despite him, I will not use AI for.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:But I'm.
Speaker A:You're not wrong.
Speaker A:I'm sure it's going to infiltrate it at some point in some way and I don't know, I guess we'll figure it out.
Speaker A:All right, let's move to our third and final topic.
Speaker A:And it's not necessarily the most sunny all smiles topic, but it's one that Matt and I have talked about offline quite a bit in the last couple of weeks because he posted something on his social media about a friend of his whole was struck and killed while riding a bike.
Speaker A:And I, as an emergency physician, have had way, way too much experience seeing cyclists who have been severely injured when riding their bikes.
Speaker A:And of course I am all too aware of what happens when automobiles and cyclists interact.
Speaker A:And just recently I had a conversation with my coach about how last year I think I suffered a little bit because I do so much of my riding on the trainer and I really need to do better about riding my bike in Arrow.
Speaker A:And the only way I'm going to do that because I'm just not that good at riding Arrow on the trainer is to get outside.
Speaker A:I'm not Matthew Marquardt who can go on a cruise ship and ride an Arrow for freaking six hours in his cruise ship stateroom.
Speaker A:Unbelievable.
Speaker A:Yeah, But I just need to ride my Tribec.
Speaker A:And so I went out.
Speaker A:I rode in the county roads of Boulder.
Speaker A:And I'm not exaggerating to say that I spent most of that time very fearful.
Speaker B:And you weren't 100 focused on your effort, on your training.
Speaker B:You were somewhat elsewhere, obviously.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was really not comfortable and that is really sad because riding my bike is something that I adore and when I don't enjoy it, because I am literally like for years now when I leave to go ride my bike, I tell my wife and kids, I love you guys.
Speaker A:It's like this goodbye.
Speaker A:Just in case.
Speaker B:Has any.
Speaker B:Have you changed your perspective on riding outside recently or is this something you felt for a long time?
Speaker A:It's been going on for quite a while.
Speaker A:The more people I know who've been involved in this, and I know way too many, the more ghost bikes I see.
Speaker A:I know Trini Willerton who runs the organization.
Speaker A:It could be me.
Speaker A:Which is all about trying to get motorists to understand, hey, like we're just humans.
Speaker A:But there's this divide between motorists and cyclists that I will never understand.
Speaker A:This animosity that just doesn't make sense.
Speaker A:We're not going to bridge it.
Speaker A:I'm sorry, I just don't think we are.
Speaker A:I just think there's too many motorists who.
Speaker A:You look at the comments whenever somebody is struck and killed and the comments are all vile and reprehensible towards the cyclist who died.
Speaker A:And I just think that now I want to follow this up by saying I rode two days in a row.
Speaker A:The second day I rode in the foothills around Denver on quiet country roads.
Speaker A:I rode with my 15 year old son and we had a lovely day.
Speaker A:It was one of the happiest, most enjoyable bike rides I'd ever.
Speaker A:Mostly because I was riding with my son who just loved cycling and he just had a great day and so did I.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:It was great to be out there, but also I didn't feel so scared because quiet roads.
Speaker B:Yeah, quiet was it?
Speaker B:It's a gravel ride.
Speaker A:No, we were riding, but just riding up in Morrison and Evergreen where we were pretty much unmolested on roads that I know quite well that are generally windy and so cars are not driving quickly.
Speaker A:They tend to be quite respectful of cyclists.
Speaker A:And so we didn't have any issues.
Speaker A:And honestly went.
Speaker A:The whole day I rode in Boulder.
Speaker A:I didn't have any issues.
Speaker A:Like I didn't.
Speaker A:People were very respectful.
Speaker A:I didn't get honked at.
Speaker A:Everybody was very nice.
Speaker A:People gave me room even on 36, a road I don't like to ride on which has a shoulder.
Speaker B:It's a heavily trafficked road with a nice shoulder, but it's a highway essentially.
Speaker B:So busy, cars going fast.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not perfect.
Speaker B:Do you plan on really like you talked about wanting to ride more outside.
Speaker B:Are you actually going to do that or what's your plan then?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:My mantra has been I don't know anybody who's been struck and killed by a car on their trainer.
Speaker A:And that remains true to this day.
Speaker A:I was talking with a buddy of mine, somebody who you have used his memes many times in the Tempo News and that is Joe Wilson.
Speaker A:He's a triathlon Joe, good guy.
Speaker A:And he also spends most of his time riding his bike on the trainer for similar reasons.
Speaker A:It's very time efficient, it's safe.
Speaker A:But both of us have issues being an arrow.
Speaker A:It's like really hard to be aero on your trainer.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:What do you do?
Speaker A:Are you able to do it?
Speaker B:I don't have issues issues.
Speaker B:So I'm sorry, I can't relate.
Speaker A:No, I know all the pros, I.
Speaker B:Just, I lock in on that.
Speaker A:Yeah, all the pros are able to do it.
Speaker A:It's really amazing.
Speaker A:And I think I.
Speaker A:I'm sure there are age groupers who are able.
Speaker A:I would love to hear, go to talk tempo talks and let us know your experience of riding on the trainer.
Speaker A:But I, I'm just one of those people.
Speaker A:I'll ride an arrow for 20 minutes and then I'm like, I can't do this.
Speaker A:I have to sit up and I don't know anyways, so what am I going to do?
Speaker A:I'm definitely going to ride more with my son.
Speaker A:So that means.
Speaker A:But it won't be on my tri bike.
Speaker A:So that's going to be riding on these quieter roads, doing climbing rides.
Speaker A:But will I ride more on my Tribike?
Speaker A:Because the rides that I tend to do on my tri bike are going to be Boulder County.
Speaker A:They're going to be south of Denver riding Sedalia to Palmer Lake.
Speaker A:But that's a really busy road.
Speaker A:It's pretty dangerous.
Speaker A:I just don't feel like there's a lot of safe options.
Speaker A:And that's the problem.
Speaker A:That's the how often now because you told me you're spending a lot more time on the trainer.
Speaker A:What's your kind of thing?
Speaker B:Yeah, it's funny because when I was younger training for short course just coming up maybe Just because I was a younger man and hadn't had as much experience.
Speaker B:Like I would never ride the trainer.
Speaker B:And if I did, it was because it was snowing outside kind of thing, or raining and very cold almost snowing.
Speaker B:So I always have that attitude.
Speaker B:I'm staying outside.
Speaker B:But there's a few reasons why I'm definitely spending more time on the trainer these days.
Speaker B:I think like most folks, it's just more time efficient.
Speaker B:Like the other day I was out on a ride outdoors, I flatted and it just took a bunch of time.
Speaker B:It was annoying.
Speaker B:I was grumbling like, ah, if I was on the trainer, I wouldn't have to deal with this.
Speaker B:So there's obviously that factor.
Speaker B:You just get on the trainer, get the work done.
Speaker B:I think like I've been hit by a car before and it's not fun.
Speaker B:And that was when I was younger and actually in an area where it was very quiet roads and this guy just came out of nowhere and T boned me.
Speaker B:So really random.
Speaker B:But it's also like, I feel like for me too, not even related to cars and whatnot, but just time in the sun.
Speaker B:Like I feel like I just don't want to spend as much time in the sun.
Speaker B:I don't know for my skin.
Speaker B:But the biggest thing I would say the biggest reason why I feel like I spend more time on the trainer these days is really when you're in that arrow position, you are just a little more compromised versus being in a standard road position.
Speaker B:Like your heads down.
Speaker B:Especially if you're hammering intervals, you're really maybe looking not super far in front of you.
Speaker B:So if you're coming across side streets, there's just less time to get out of the aero bars and hit the brakes.
Speaker B:And when you do hit the brakes, they're not really as great as like a road setup with the drops and whatnot.
Speaker B:I just feel like being in that aero position for me is almost a little bit of a turn.
Speaker B:Like when I go on the trainer, I'm hammering intervals.
Speaker B:I'm not worried about cars pulling out randomly and because I've been T boned before, so I know that experience.
Speaker B:Really just being that arrow position for me, it's a little bit compromising.
Speaker A:And I will say, you mentioned gravel before.
Speaker A:I love gravel riding.
Speaker A:I think gravel riding is a game changer.
Speaker A:The only issue is finding gravel routes.
Speaker A:And while there are good gravel routes accessible to where I live, it's a long drive to get to them.
Speaker A:So it just comes back to that time efficiency factor.
Speaker A:And then mountain biking.
Speaker A:I know there are a ton of people who love mountain biking and mountain biking is another great way to get your riding in.
Speaker A:Clearly, it's not the same style of riding and it's obviously not duplicating the aero position.
Speaker A:But there's also a technical, like there's a skill set involved in mountain biking.
Speaker A:And as a guy who only started mountain biking, biking in his 40s, I never really got that skill set.
Speaker A:And so I, I am terrified on my mountain bike and I am probably more likely to get significantly injured on a mountain bike than anything else.
Speaker B:And I guess for athletes who are listening or really just any athletes, like, if you triathletes aren't notorious for their bike skills, like, what do you recommend for athletes who, yeah, are maybe spending a lot of time on the trainer for various reasons, work, timing, etc.
Speaker B:What do you recommend for them in terms of actually gaining skills on the bike if they're not able to ride outside that much?
Speaker A:It's huge.
Speaker A:It's so important because we see that more and more we see people getting out only when to do their long rides in a race.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's no substitute for just riding outside.
Speaker A:And I made a post on Instagram where I talked about this issue and I invited people to comment and several people did.
Speaker A:And a couple of people mentioned bike paths.
Speaker A:Bike paths are fine.
Speaker A:It's really.
Speaker A:I don't find bike paths ideal because you're limited in how fast you can go.
Speaker A:You then have to deal with rollerbladers and dog walkers who have leashes that go across the path.
Speaker A:And there's all kinds of issues.
Speaker A:That being said, a bike path is a generally safe way to get out and at least practice your skills.
Speaker A:So learning how to change your gears, learning how to get your bottle, learning how to do the different things that you need to do because you don't have to to use high speed to figure some of those things out.
Speaker A:But the real skills that I think people need to work on are cornering and descending.
Speaker A:And that is not.
Speaker A:You're not going to get that on a bike path.
Speaker B:You can't do that on Zwift and.
Speaker A:You can't do that on Zwift.
Speaker A:And so the only way to do that is to find a quiet place where you can do that.
Speaker B:And if an athlete has, say, like maybe an aerobic ride or something, do you think it might be worth them searching out a more technical route?
Speaker B:Maybe it's not going to be ideal for whatever physiological parameters they have, but maybe working on Those skills.
Speaker B:It's actually more of an upside.
Speaker A:I think so.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so.
Speaker A:Anytime you could find a safe route that's going to allow you to work in some bike handling, you are going to come out better for it.
Speaker A:Not just for the training, but also for that bike handling.
Speaker A:And it's a.
Speaker A:It's a real shame.
Speaker A:I have a couple of different athletes I've worked with over the years who were incredibly strong cyclists, but the second they got on the road, all of their bike power was lost because they were fearful and they didn't like to descend.
Speaker A:They weren't comfortable at speed.
Speaker A:And so it was like all of the training was for naught because they just wouldn't use the power that they had.
Speaker A:You can't overstate the value of spending, of putting in that time to learn the bike skills.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Even if it's just a ride here and there, just where you're actually practicing and putting in a little bit of focus time, meaningful time on working on turns and whatnot.
Speaker B:And like you said, the skills of getting your bottle it.
Speaker B:You might be losing a bit on a workout, but the upside is a lot more.
Speaker B:I think in that case.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's all kind of a workout.
Speaker A:We would love to hear your thoughts on all of what we've talked about today, but especially this last one, because I think it's one that everybody probably has given some thought to.
Speaker A:What are you doing to try and mitigate the risk?
Speaker A:What kinds of things cross your mind and what kinds of ways are you working on your bike skills?
Speaker A:If you're spending a lot of time on the trainer, find the Talk Tempo Talks Facebook group on that platform.
Speaker A:Answer the easy questions.
Speaker A:We'll gain you admittance.
Speaker A:We'd love to hear your comments.
Speaker A:Join the conversation there, Matt.
Speaker A:It's been another great episode.
Speaker A:Look forward to chatting with you next week when we will just be days away from the boulder.
Speaker A:70.3.
Speaker A:My panic training I think is going to pay off with at least no dnf.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:Perfect.
Speaker B:That's all we can.
Speaker A:All we can ask for.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Thanks, Jeff.
Speaker B:This has been another great episode.
Speaker B:And yeah, looking forward to chatting with you next week.
Speaker A:Yeah, me too.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening, everybody.
Speaker A:We'll talk to you again next week.
Speaker A:Bye now, Sam.
