An Analysis of High-Stakes Competition in Triathlon & Navigating the Heat: How Hot Water Immersion Transforms Athletic Performance
In the recent installment of Tempo Talks, Matthew Sharp and Jeff Sankoff engage in a thoughtful dialogue regarding their preparations for the Boulder triathlon, juxtaposed with reflections on the Eagleman Pro Race. Sharp, an Olympian, shares insights from his extensive experience, while Sankoff, a medical contributor and coach, candidly discusses his anxieties about his training regimen. This exchange highlights the psychological aspects of competition, where pre-race nerves can cloud an athlete's confidence. As they anticipate the challenges posed by the Boulder course, particularly with the forecasted heat, they emphasize the critical importance of hydration and pacing strategies.
Moving from personal narratives to professional analyses, the hosts delve into the recent Eagleman Pro Race, dissecting the performances of elite athletes, notably Lucy Charles Barkley and Chelsea Sodaro. Their discussion reveals the dynamic interplay between these competitors, with Sharp elucidating how Barkley established a formidable lead in the swim and maintained her dominance throughout the race. Sankoff provides a counterpoint by examining Sodaro's tactical choices as she sought to close the gap during the run. This segment offers listeners a nuanced view of race strategy, underscoring the complexities that define competitive triathlon.
The episode does not shy away from serious topics, addressing the grave incidents that occurred during the Escape from Alcatraz race, where a swimmer sustained severe injuries due to chaotic conditions during the start. This sobering discussion underscores the need for heightened safety measures and improved race management protocols to prevent such incidents in the future. The episode concludes with an exploration of a pertinent study on heat acclimation, positing that passive heat exposure may offer physiological benefits comparable to altitude training. This multifaceted approach to the episode encapsulates the essence of triathlon—balancing personal experience with professional insight, while also advocating for athlete safety and performance optimization.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
Welcome to Tempo Talks, a show that brings you analysis of the biggest stories in triathlon training, tips to make you a better athlete, and breakdowns of the latest science and performance.
Speaker A:I'm Matthew Sharp, an Olympian in triathlon 70.3 Champion & Co founder of the Tempo News.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeff Sankoff, the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at Life Sport Coaching.
Speaker B:Our goal, inform and entertain two perspectives.
Speaker B:One, sport all things triathlon.
Speaker B:Now let's get into it.
Speaker B:It's another week of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:I am here with Matt.
Speaker B:We are just a couple of.
Speaker B:Well, by the time you're listening to this, we'll be like 24 hours from making our way around the course of Boulder, one of us significantly faster than the other.
Speaker B:Matt, how are you feeling?
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm feeling good.
Speaker A:We'll both be taking on the course head on.
Speaker A:You've been nailing your panic training, I hear, so you're coming in with great form.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I tell my own athletes who I coach.
Speaker B:If you're nervous before a race, there's only a few reasons to be nervous.
Speaker B:It's because you don't know what to expect.
Speaker B:It's because you haven't thought about the different things that can come up and you haven't planned properly, or it's because you're worried you're unprepared.
Speaker B:I fall squarely in that last category, this race.
Speaker B:But our coach said to me, he's you're much better prepared than you think you are.
Speaker B:And as I reflect on the training I've put in the last couple of months, I definitely put in some solid efforts.
Speaker B:And I just haven't trained the same way I have in years past because of the new job and because of everything else going on.
Speaker B:But we'll see.
Speaker B:Listen, 31 degrees Celsius is not going to help, but it's going to be the same for everyone.
Speaker A:It might slow things down a little bit.
Speaker A:So if you're on your pacing, if you're on your nutrition, your hydration, that.
Speaker A:That could play into your advantage, too.
Speaker B:Yep, we'll see.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:We got a good program lined up for today.
Speaker B:Matt, what are we talking about today?
Speaker A:We're going to do a little rewind to last weekend's 70.3 Eagleman Pro Race.
Speaker A:We're going to look ahead to this weekend's race In Vancouver, the T100.
Speaker A:Vancouver, the first one.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker A:Up in the Great White North.
Speaker A:And then also look ahead to Ironman, Cairns.
Speaker A:Cairns.
Speaker A:Got to get that someday.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then the 70.3 that.
Speaker B:That you're a part of.
Speaker A:I actually, I'm not writing about it in the newsletter.
Speaker A:We can go into it a little bit.
Speaker A:We don't need to give too much time to it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:But also after that we'll be talking about this kind of tragic, sad situation at Escape from Alcatraz, which is just starting to gain a little bit of traction now.
Speaker A:We'll get into that.
Speaker A:And then a really interesting heat study talking about whether heat can, like heat training can substitute for altitude or take over from altitude.
Speaker A:You'll get kind of a cross.
Speaker B:A cross benefit with altitude training.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Is maybe altitude training is done after this study.
Speaker B:I don't know about that, but it was very interesting study.
Speaker B:I look forward to chatting about it.
Speaker B:We should mention, of course, we do deserve a blue card.
Speaker B:A blue card was handed to us both by our very active participant in the Talk Tempo Talks Facebook group, Brian Dunn, who has been Johnny on the spot several times.
Speaker B:He noticed that we neglected to mention the Eagleman race.
Speaker B:That was in our discussion of the pro races last week.
Speaker B:Why don't we start there?
Speaker B:And after escaping the penalty tent for not mentioning it last week, let's review.
Speaker B:It was quite an exciting race.
Speaker B:It was really a woman on woman affair on the women's side.
Speaker B:But then on the men's race, a lot of big names out there.
Speaker A:A lot of big names.
Speaker A:I actually took a little flack in the newsletter the other day for not talking more about it, which, yeah, I have opinions on that.
Speaker A:But anyways, the racing was exciting.
Speaker A:The women's race was really intriguing because you basically had two Ironman world champions going head to head.
Speaker A:Lucy Charles Barkley and Chelsea Sadaro both having.
Speaker A:I think Lucy's had a pretty solid spring so far.
Speaker A:Chelsea, the opposite.
Speaker A:She had some illness going into Texas.
Speaker A:Wasn't able to compete.
Speaker A:Also wasn't able to compete.
Speaker A:I believe in Oceanside as well.
Speaker A:So almost looking to prove herself and get her season back.
Speaker A:Rolling.
Speaker A:And really at the end of the day, Lucy Charles just took it to the field, really.
Speaker A:She showed her dominance in the swim.
Speaker A:Coming out right at the front.
Speaker A:There was another woman who let her out actually, which is exciting to see.
Speaker A:And then she took control on the bike and just cruised through the run to take the win.
Speaker A:Chelsea, do you remember how far back she was in the end?
Speaker B:Yeah, two minutes.
Speaker B:Lucy came off the bike with about a four and a half minute lead.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:The commentators were saying it's just going to be a matter of whether or not she can hold off Chelse and they were absolutely right.
Speaker B:Chelsea outran Lucy by over two minutes and had her usual sensational run.
Speaker B:But let's face it, Chelsea is not typically a 70.3 star.
Speaker B:She excels at the longer distances because I think, I don't think this is too much of a stretch to say she doesn't have that sort of top end speed of the swim.
Speaker B:And then also her bike is really better suited for the longer distance, I think.
Speaker B:And then she's just a phenomenal runner.
Speaker B:Running has its.
Speaker B:You just do so much better with a solid run like she does on an Ironman.
Speaker A:And we don't know these athletes, what they're really training for, what their big focus is.
Speaker A:I assume someone like Chelsea, she's going for the Ironman Pro series and we all know the incentives for that are performing well in full distance races.
Speaker A:So you know she's pulling back that kind of gap.
Speaker A:It makes it interesting.
Speaker A:Looking ahead, Dakona, if she's not too far behind coming off the bike this year, maybe she's in it for a chance to have one of those magical runs like she did a few years ago to take the win.
Speaker A:To me it was great to see her back.
Speaker A:Chelsea back.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what happened at 22.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Lucy was ahead on the run and Chelsea just reeled her down over time.
Speaker B:And that is, that remains Lucy's sort of, if you want to say it's a weakness.
Speaker B:She's still a very strong runner.
Speaker B:She just doesn't have the kind of run that a Laura Phillip or a Chelsea Sodaro has especially on on the marathon or Kat Matthews even.
Speaker B:So she has to race from the front in order to establish enough of a lead and then hope that she is able to hang on.
Speaker B:And she ran amazingly well in 23 the last time the women were in Kona.
Speaker B:So it wasn't even a matter that she needed to be that far ahead.
Speaker B:But most days she's gonna need to have a pretty decent lead coming off the bike in order to hang on.
Speaker B:And this was the case in Eagleman and we'll see what happens as the season wears on.
Speaker B:But I agree that was a.
Speaker B:Despite not the most competitive field with head to head against Chelsea, she really did a good job.
Speaker B:And I also was quite happy to see Chelsea do as well as she did because it marks her sort of hey, I'm here too.
Speaker B:Her flag waving.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And personally I'm lately I'm really enjoying these Kind of head to heads with these pro women.
Speaker A:They're really intriguing because often there is a bit of a mismatch in terms of skills.
Speaker A:Not always, but it just creates an interesting storyline.
Speaker A:Obviously the Cab Matthews, Laura Philipp title fight in Iron Man Hamburg was insane.
Speaker A:Going blow for eight hours was awesome.
Speaker A:You saw in T100 kind of nib versus Julie Darin with Darren coming up and taking the win there.
Speaker A:A bit of a surprise, but just a lot of intrigue in this race was another opportunity for that.
Speaker A:And it does for me really get me excited for the Ironman World Championships later this year when you have all of them, hopefully, fingers crossed they're all there ready to go because that will be great dynamics.
Speaker B:All right, let's talk about the men's side because there was a much bigger and more interesting field.
Speaker B:Not to say that Chelsea and Lucy aren't interesting just on their own.
Speaker B:But the men's race evolved.
Speaker B:Yeah, evolved in a very different way.
Speaker A:It's one of those ones where the course is quite flat, not like a St.
Speaker A:George, where someone, a great athlete like Lionel can get away from really tough.
Speaker A:Especially if you have referee motos and everything.
Speaker A:And in a quality field, it's just so much harder for a strong athlete to break away.
Speaker A:And it honestly doesn't necessarily make sense even for a great athlete to try and go on their own.
Speaker A:So what you saw was classic Greg Harper, he's a great swimmer let out of the water and then there was just groups coming up from behind.
Speaker A:I thought Ben Knute actually would come out with Greg and he wasn't quite there.
Speaker A:He's usually a classic front pack swimmer and he was in his own rhythm.
Speaker A:And then had the boys from behind come up.
Speaker A:So like the Jackson Laundries of the world, Sam Long, Trevor Foley, there was just folks like that and they all coalesced into one big pack.
Speaker A:And yeah, like I talked about really, I think maybe Sam may have considered making a move, but on that course it's just too hard.
Speaker A:Too hard, it's too hard, it's not worth it.
Speaker A:And I think there was a little bit of chatter.
Speaker A:I was trying to read through the lines of these people's Instagram but like basically calling out people but not calling out people for sitting in.
Speaker A:And because it's Ironman, it's a shorter, it's a 12 meter draft zone versus like a T100.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was just funny to see these subtle digs afterwards.
Speaker A:I think what happened was it sounded like Sam Long was taking a lot of work on the front Jackson was also as well.
Speaker A:And then Trevor Foley maybe was being a little more tactical and sitting in in the bunch.
Speaker A:Came off T2 with those guys.
Speaker B:You know what, it's pro racing.
Speaker B:If you're going to whine about it, don't sit in the front.
Speaker B:I don't know Matt, do you feel like that's a legitimate gripe?
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:If these people want to complain about the 12 meter drafting zone, like I get it, like there is definitely a draft at 12 meters especially with the wind the way it is at times.
Speaker A:But don't draft in the swim.
Speaker A:Then if you want to be pure, why are you drafting in the swim?
Speaker B:But never mind that.
Speaker B:But never mind that.
Speaker B:That's the stated rule.
Speaker B:Trevor Foley, good on him.
Speaker B:He's a smart racer.
Speaker B:I know I can't get away from these guys on a flat bike course so I'm just gonna let them be the heroes and do all the work and I'm gonna sit here and bide my time for the run.
Speaker B:That is tactical smart racing.
Speaker B:He's not violating the rules in any way.
Speaker B:I think it is disingenuous for people to gripe about that especially and this is again why I'm not a huge fan of those two names that you mentioned because they are continuously making those kinds of gripes.
Speaker B:I'm like, listen guys, if you're going to gripe about it, you could sit back as well, save yourself for the road.
Speaker B:I just don't understand it.
Speaker A:These guys want to enjoy their advantage even more.
Speaker A:If you're like if I'm a good swimmer I'm going to want, you know, crazy water conditions to make it tough for the non swimmers and these guys are going to want a longer draft zone to make it tougher for the non cycling.
Speaker A:Again you got to talk your book.
Speaker B:Don't sign up for Eagle man.
Speaker A:Then it's just funny to observe the casual, not casual, but just subtle digs afterwards.
Speaker A:And I'm like, guys, this is racing.
Speaker A:It's only going to get more like this as more short course athletes show up.
Speaker A:Who the guys who are coming from ITU or World Triathlon.
Speaker A:They don't.
Speaker A:They don't care if somebody yells at them during the PA like in the race.
Speaker A:They don't care if someone's screaming at them to take a turn.
Speaker A:They're not going to do it because why would you get on the run?
Speaker A:So it's just a paradigm shift that's going on in these Ironman races.
Speaker A:Who knows, maybe Ironman will make the draft zone longer.
Speaker A:But it's funny to observe this.
Speaker B:It's tougher to do that if you're having.
Speaker B:If you're letting as many pros.
Speaker B:So the pro men are trying to have it both ways.
Speaker B:They want to have bigger fields, but then they want to have a longer draft zone.
Speaker B:And that's really hard to do on some of these courses.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:They could voluntarily just go 20 meters back and show that solidarity.
Speaker A:I'm going to be 12 meters because that's the rule, but go for it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Anyways, so they get off the bike, they get on the run.
Speaker B:And Trevor, despite sitting in, unfortunately, Trevor was.
Speaker A:And he's a guy who.
Speaker A:He'll run on confidence.
Speaker A:And he's had a couple tough races lately.
Speaker A:So I think he was just looking for a good result and doing whatever it takes to get it.
Speaker A:And I definitely respect that.
Speaker A:And so it ended up being Trevor Foley, Sam Long in this kind of run battle.
Speaker A:I didn't watch the race, but from what I understand, it was very close for a lot of it.
Speaker A:And then Sam turned on the jets maybe with the last few miles to go.
Speaker A:But yeah, just a good.
Speaker A:Another good battle on the run.
Speaker A:We love the battles.
Speaker A:And yeah, Sam took the win in the end.
Speaker A:So even with the draft zone, took.
Speaker B:The win with his usual.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I'm a fan of the spectacle as a spectacle.
Speaker B:But anyways, what do you guys think listening in?
Speaker B:I don't think I'm alone in my disdain.
Speaker B:But yeah, let us know in the talk, Tempo talks, Facebook group.
Speaker B:We would love to hear your thoughts on both of those issues.
Speaker B:The fact that some of the men maybe weren't so excited about people sitting in and being tactical and then also about Senor Long's typical victory sort of spectacle.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Let's look ahead now.
Speaker B:We have three big races coming up this weekend.
Speaker B:We'll start with the T100 in Vancouver, which is going to be in a beautiful setting.
Speaker A:Beautiful setting.
Speaker A:I'm really excited for this race.
Speaker A:I hope they have the good camera angles ready because Vancouver is a beautiful place in this springtime.
Speaker A:Hopefully it's a nice spring day because it's special there, for sure.
Speaker A:But first, T100 in Vancouver.
Speaker A:It's really exciting to see this.
Speaker A:And I think maybe we'll start off with the women's race because we have the winner of Eagle Man, Lucy Charles Barkley.
Speaker A:She's hopping across the continent from the east coast to the west coast, and she'll be there and she Always brings intrigue to these high level races because of her skill set.
Speaker A:She'll be pushing the pace at the front so I'm excited to see what she does in that race.
Speaker A:You have someone like Taylor Knibb who after having her undefeated streak broken in San Francisco, she'll be out for blood, out for vengeance, out for vengeance.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And really if you have those two together in the race, that could be an interesting dynamic if they are together on the bike.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know if I've ever really seen them together on the bike.
Speaker A:I'm sure they have been but that could be a great dynamic to get away from the Julie Darrens and the ashy Gentles of the world.
Speaker A:It's a.
Speaker A:There's definitely some great athletes for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's going to be.
Speaker B:And on the men's side, who are we looking at?
Speaker A:So for the men we have the same thing.
Speaker A:Eagle man winner.
Speaker A:Heading over to Vancouver, Sam Long.
Speaker A:He'll be back in the T100 field which yeah, not necessarily suiting him in a lot of ways because of just so many swimmers in this race.
Speaker A:But really you're probably going to see a similar show that we saw in San Francisco a couple weeks ago.
Speaker A:I don't know if too much has changed in the whatever week and a half, two weeks.
Speaker B:Yeah, a lot of the same names.
Speaker B:One of the guys we didn't hear from in San Francisco, I was a little bit surprised was Kyle Smith.
Speaker B:Here's a guy who has made a big show about wanting to win the T100 title and didn't really have a great race in San Francisco.
Speaker A:He was fourth but not, but not up to his standard, obviously not in the same epic sprint finish as he was last year.
Speaker A:Kyle Smith, I think he'll be.
Speaker A:Maybe he's on the up.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You have these people who I think he had a bit of a slow start to the year so maybe he's trending up in his fitness.
Speaker A:But really one thing to watch in this T100 is Rico Bogan, Germany.
Speaker A:He had that incredible bike in San Francisco.
Speaker B:Can he do it again?
Speaker A:Can he do it again?
Speaker A:Can he pull away?
Speaker A:Will these guys let him go away?
Speaker A:Did they even have a choice in San Francisco because he was so strong?
Speaker A:We have Martin Van Real who maybe, who knows, maybe he was a little tired from training or something going to San Francisco.
Speaker A:He's been training on Vancouver island in my home and maybe that's rejuvenated him.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:It's going to be fun.
Speaker B:It is fun to see some of the same names come back just a couple weeks later and race each other again.
Speaker B:Because they get to know each other a little bit.
Speaker B:Familiarity.
Speaker B:So that's cool.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I would say podium watch in the men's race.
Speaker A:You got Bogan looking for another win.
Speaker A:You've got Yella who came second in San Fran.
Speaker A:He'll be fired up to try and get the win.
Speaker A:And then some interesting wild cards.
Speaker A:There's that potatoes guy who I called out.
Speaker A:The Greek guy, The Greek God.
Speaker A:I called him out last time as a podium threat and he DNF'd because of mechanicals.
Speaker A:I don't know, maybe I shouldn't talk about him.
Speaker A:Maybe I jinxed him last time.
Speaker A:But definitely a safety.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Keeps it together this time.
Speaker B:Let's see what he can do.
Speaker A:And you also have Miguel Hidalgo from Brazil who won a world triathlon world championship series race recently.
Speaker A:He's in incredible form.
Speaker A:He won.
Speaker A:He went the fourth fastest time ever at a 70.3 in Brazil earlier this spring.
Speaker A:So he's got great form.
Speaker A:So somebody who could definitely maybe surprise for the win or at least break up the podium.
Speaker A:Break up the usual suspects.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's going to be awesome.
Speaker B:It's going to be really fun.
Speaker B:And that race Saturday or Sunday?
Speaker A:I believe it's Saturday.
Speaker A:It's a fairly tight turnaround for the Eagle man, folks.
Speaker A:But also bigger picture.
Speaker A:This Vancouver race, it is the first time they're doing it.
Speaker A:I thought it was really interesting to see the T100 choose Vancouver.
Speaker A:I think it's a great selection of a place for race.
Speaker A:Obviously the location is really good for a race.
Speaker A:There is just an underserved market there where you have Vancouver.
Speaker A:It's got like 3 million people.
Speaker A:Seattle's just down the road.
Speaker A:That's another 4 million people.
Speaker A:You got throw Portland in there, another couple million.
Speaker A:This whole area, once that Ironman Canada left, was it like last year?
Speaker A:There really is no high level Reagan.
Speaker B:You've got Victoria 70.3, which just took place a few weeks ago.
Speaker B:You've got Oregon, which is in Salem.
Speaker B:And then you have the Washington Tri Cities race, which is a little bit harder to get to because it's pretty far east in Washington.
Speaker B:And that's about it.
Speaker B:There's not a whole lot else going on there.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:I think that this definitely fills a need.
Speaker B:And I wouldn't be surprised to see Ironman watching this very carefully.
Speaker A:100%.
Speaker B:I just think it happens.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I just think if T100 really can execute well enough, people come out of it saying, oh, I had a good time, no complaints really.
Speaker A:And a nice broadcast, good visuals.
Speaker A:I think they can really build this race into something like a crown jewel in their series just because of the opportunity it shows.
Speaker A:Those populations are all active and whatnot.
Speaker A:It's this great market and Vancouver is just a global, I don't know, destination people like to go to.
Speaker A:It's a beautiful place.
Speaker A:So, yeah, agreed.
Speaker A:I'm biased, of course, being from British Columbia, but I really do believe the T100 nailed this one and now they need to nail the pro race and the age group race and I really think this could build into something that lasts if the T100 can obviously stick around.
Speaker B:TBD.
Speaker B:Yeah, TBD.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:All right, let's shift our focus to the Ironman events taking place there is the race in Cairns, which I know that Matthew Marquard has been going over there.
Speaker B:I keep talking about my boy.
Speaker B:He hasn't really had, but he's an interesting character.
Speaker A:We like.
Speaker B:He is a good character.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I am hopeful that he can get things together and have.
Speaker A:Do you think his cruise ship training is going to do the job?
Speaker B:I know it never did it for me, but I didn't quite train.
Speaker B:I used to work as a physician on cruise ships, so I.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I would sail around the world for 10 days to two weeks at a time and try and keep up with my training and I never did nearly as good of a job as he did.
Speaker A:I really wanted him to relax on this cruise because I feel like the guy is just on 24 7.
Speaker A:I wanted him to just chill and it's no chill.
Speaker A:He's got the band in the pool, he's got the trainer set up.
Speaker A:Yeah, he sweating everything out on the ship.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely a curious.
Speaker B:Well, who else?
Speaker B:Who else is there?
Speaker A:Yeah, other than Marquardt.
Speaker A:You have an interesting mix of athletes and also the dynamics around the race because the pro series is heavily, so heavily weighed towards Ironman races.
Speaker A:You now have this situation where people who maybe they went to South Africa earlier this year, March, maybe they went to Texas as well looking for a solid result.
Speaker A:Maybe they laid some eggs and now they're desperate because the pro series Ironman cutoff for getting your slot to Kona potentially, but also just getting good series points is really closing.
Speaker A:So you've got guys like Matt Hanson who DNF'd in South Africa and I think didn't really like a top 15 maybe in Texas and he's usually like A podium adjacent guy.
Speaker A:So he's gone all the way down to Australia to look for these points.
Speaker A:You've got obviously Marquardt as well, Braden Curry, another kind of early season.
Speaker A:I don't want to say bust, but bust.
Speaker A:So he's looking for good series points and trying to get back on the board there.
Speaker A:And then of course you have a young guy, Jamie Riddle, he's from South Africa, he went to Paris last year and now he's doing them all, doing all the distances.
Speaker A:T 170.3 Ironman.
Speaker A:And he's really been revelation this year with his performances.
Speaker A:Very impressive.
Speaker B:Any women in that?
Speaker A:Yes, for sure.
Speaker A:And it's a similar situation.
Speaker A:I would say the one who's down there really desperate or just looking to turn the ship around is Jackie Herring.
Speaker A:So she was second.
Speaker B:She's done really well in the 70.3s.
Speaker A:Yeah, done very solid, I think.
Speaker A:Although the 70.3s, that's the problem.
Speaker A:They're just not enough points if you're really gunning for a top three in the pro series or even the win, which is 200K.
Speaker A:So she had a tough race in Hamburg, was it last two weekends ago where she flatted, couldn't finish.
Speaker A:So now, boom, she's got a pack her bags and head down under to try and find these points and she's probably the consensus pick for the win.
Speaker A:But of course you get a flat, you know that's going to set you back.
Speaker B:Got to carry a flat kit.
Speaker B:You pros just gotta.
Speaker A:Well, for an Ironman, I feel like definitely a good idea.
Speaker A:She'll have some good competition though.
Speaker A:There's also Hannah Barry, who is the defending champion.
Speaker A:You've got Penny Slater from Australia as well, Kylie Simpson, who's won that race before.
Speaker A:So she's.
Speaker A:Jackie's definitely the number one pick, I would say.
Speaker A:But it's not going to be a walk in the park, that's for sure.
Speaker B:All right, and then last but not least, just briefly, who's going to be toeing the line with you in Boulder?
Speaker A:In Boulder.
Speaker A:There is no women's field in Boulder.
Speaker A:It's actually a women's race in Pennsylvania.
Speaker A:Happy Valley.
Speaker B:Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker B:The Pennsylvania.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, great.
Speaker A:And from that race, interesting, you've got Chelsea going back to back weekends.
Speaker A:She's going to be there.
Speaker A:She'll be racing.
Speaker A:Probably the number one pick.
Speaker A:But then you also have a friend, neighbor here in Boulder, Jeanne Metzler, who's making the return from some injuries.
Speaker A:She's a stellar athlete.
Speaker A:World class athlete.
Speaker A:She was second at 70.3 worlds a couple years ago.
Speaker A:So she could challenge Chelsea just depending on how the race plays out, but just a couple of very seasoned champions in the field.
Speaker A:And then in Boulder you have, I would say the number one pick or the is Trevor Foley.
Speaker A:He's coming off that great race.
Speaker A:And Eagle man, the battle.
Speaker A:I don't think he'll be, he'll be sitting in for this one.
Speaker A:He'll be going full tilt.
Speaker A:He'll probably have a little bit of confidence behind him.
Speaker A:But really I would say there's two challengers for Trevor at this race, both with different skill sets.
Speaker A:You have Colin souk who came third in St.
Speaker A:George, a really impressive race, had an incredible bike and then a very solid run on a hard course against some very strong competition.
Speaker A:And then you have the guy who finished just behind him in fourth in St.
Speaker A:George, Kevin McDowell, who will be with me out of the water, will both be near the front and he'll be pushing from the front all day versus Colin and Trevor coming from behind.
Speaker A:So you could have a bit of a convergence on the run, I think because Kevin's a very good athlete all around.
Speaker A:So it has the makings of potentially being a pretty interesting maybe second half of the run.
Speaker A:You could have a couple guys maybe chasing or.
Speaker B:Yeah, just it could be sleeperman's racing again too, for sure.
Speaker A:He's a bit of an unknown just because he's had some injuries and obviously more of an ironman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Athlete.
Speaker B:So he did well here a couple years ago and he did.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And how's the home course advantage?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And of course the great Matt Sharp, a previous winner at this race.
Speaker A:So this guy, he's coming in, he's was humbled big time in St.
Speaker A:George looking for redemption.
Speaker A:So I'm excited to race.
Speaker A:I think definitely plan on being right at the front of the swim.
Speaker A:And then I'm not known as a.
Speaker A:For my bike prowess, so really the bike for me will be about limiting the losses.
Speaker A:And then I've been having some great, I would say run workouts lately.
Speaker A:The running's definitely been trending up, so I'm excited to, to hit the run and get around that res and see where the legs take me.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:All right, let's move on to our second topic and we'll just.
Speaker B:We're not going to talk too long about this, but I think it's worthwhile.
Speaker B:Just making note of what took place in San Francisco last weekend right after the T100.
Speaker B:We had the Escape from Alcatraz race, a race that we were talking about, as both of us have not done something we had thought about or toyed with as a bucket list race that a lot of people consider is something that they really want to do.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, they seem to have run into some issues this year with how they were getting swimmers into the water.
Speaker B:They were really forcing them to unload the boat very quickly, and that resulted in a lot of congestion and swimmers were jumping onto other swimmers who were below and had not cleared the area.
Speaker B:And this resulted in at least one very serious injury where a swimmer landed on another swimmer's back and resulted in a fractured spine and potentially lifelong paralysis, which is obviously an incredibly devastating.
Speaker B:Not something we want to hear about.
Speaker B:We're already constantly hearing about terrible things happening on the swim.
Speaker B:We don't want to hear about something like this, which is really completely preventable.
Speaker B:What were your sort of takeaways from this, Matt?
Speaker A:It sounds like I've never heard of this happening before.
Speaker B:That's not a new race.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:They've been doing this for.
Speaker A:It's not a new race.
Speaker A:They've been doing this for years.
Speaker A:It's the same company, like the IMG company that organizes it.
Speaker A:So I don't know what was going on this boat.
Speaker A:Maybe they screwed up on the timing, but it just sounds like there was a lot of pressure reading, like the articles and stuff.
Speaker A:It sounded like there was a lot of pressure from the officials that were on the boat to get people off as quickly as possible.
Speaker A:Not really paying attention to.
Speaker A:You need a little bit of time in between these athletes jumping off.
Speaker A:So it just.
Speaker A:It sounded chaotic and reading.
Speaker A:People were saying, oh, it was super chaotic.
Speaker A:The comments that you see online, people are saying, oh, this year was just crazy.
Speaker A:So I don't know where that came from.
Speaker A:Is that a race director telling these people to get the people off the boat as quickly as possible?
Speaker A:Is that just not being coordinated between the officials on the boat and the kind of executives?
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker A:Where's the urgency from, really?
Speaker B:The urgency, I think, is probably based on conditions.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We know that if the water is really rough or if the current is particularly strong, it could lead to the potential for serious jeopardy for some of the swimmers.
Speaker B:And I can imagine that the race directors are so conscious of the potential of.
Speaker B:Because we've had two deaths in this race previously where swimmers have died from cardiac events in the swim.
Speaker B: It happened, I think,: Speaker B:At any rate, that's not a huge number given how long this race has been going on for and how many people do it every year.
Speaker B:But when you consider that this water is very cold, you don't get a warmup swim.
Speaker B:You're jumping into cold water, you're having to swim against a very strong current.
Speaker B:I can understand that if the director or if the safety people were reporting, hey, the current's picking up.
Speaker B:We probably want to get people in.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:I could imagine how that might have played into things.
Speaker B:But what I don't understand is this race has been going on for two or three decades.
Speaker B:This has never happened before.
Speaker B:So what was different this time?
Speaker B:Obviously we don't know and I don't want to speculate, but clearly something changed and whatever it was led to just a terrible situation and is not okay.
Speaker A:And it makes me think about kind of one of the big macro issues in the sport that's hanging over.
Speaker A:It is just there's a bit of a volunteer deficit.
Speaker A:There's a deficit of people coming out and officiating and whatnot for these races.
Speaker A:Do you think that could play into it as well?
Speaker A:Just not having experienced people working the races?
Speaker B:I don't know if it's a lack of volunteers, it's certainly a lack of guidance for the volunteers.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, whoever it is that's telling these people to go and jump off the boat is doing it because somebody told them to do that.
Speaker B:And that is not okay.
Speaker B:I don't want to blame the people who are standing at the door of the boat and saying, go, jump, jump, jump, go, get going.
Speaker B:Because clearly somebody told them to do that.
Speaker B:I cannot believe that those individuals, because there were several of them doing it, took it upon themselves to behave that way.
Speaker B:There was obviously somebody who didn't do their job in orienting them properly, or alternatively somebody passed it along to them.
Speaker B:We've got to get the swimmers off as quickly as possible, herd them along without any consideration to the fact that you can't have people jumping into water with swimmers below.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's such an obviously unique situation with this race.
Speaker A:This is not a typical triathlon.
Speaker A:People aren't jumping off boats in races.
Speaker A:But it's a little.
Speaker A:It's just worrisome because this race has been going on for so long.
Speaker A:It's not a.
Speaker A:If this was a first time race, you wouldn't expect it, obviously, but you just, you'd be like, okay, yeah, people screwed up.
Speaker A:This is the first time.
Speaker A:But this is 30 years or something.
Speaker A:They've been doing this race at least.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:To me, it just is a little.
Speaker A:It's frustrating.
Speaker A:It's obviously devastating for this guy.
Speaker A:It sounds.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:He will probably make a full recovery.
Speaker A:It will just take him a long time.
Speaker A:And obviously this guy's got a job, he's got his life, and now it's put on hold due to this.
Speaker B:I had not heard.
Speaker B:I had not heard that he was.
Speaker A:Going to an article I read.
Speaker B:That's wonderful news because I had heard he had spinal surgery and was in the icu.
Speaker B:And that was the last I heard.
Speaker B:And I will say from my own experience in seeing those kinds of patients, they don't generally make a full recovery.
Speaker B:So to know that he is more likely to recover is fantastic news.
Speaker B:And I think that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it sounds like he will recover.
Speaker A:It's just the timeline isn't great.
Speaker A:But does this deter you from doing this race?
Speaker B:Yes, it does.
Speaker B:I would have.
Speaker B:I'm pretty deterred from doing any race where you have to jump into 50 plus water.
Speaker B:And that's not even it.
Speaker B:It's just because I know that the more likely.
Speaker B:So the places or the kinds of swims where you're more likely to run into trouble, especially, look, I'm 58.
Speaker B:I'm not getting any younger.
Speaker B:And as you get older, your risk for problems on the swim increase.
Speaker B:And we know that cold water is a big issue.
Speaker B:No, warm up is a big issue.
Speaker B:You combine those two.
Speaker B:Jumping into cold water and then having to exert yourself quickly to get away from a boat.
Speaker B:That's not a great combination.
Speaker A:There's a lot of stress.
Speaker B:More.
Speaker A:Even more stress, maybe.
Speaker B:And I look at the other races like this.
Speaker B:Like the Norseman is the same thing.
Speaker B:You're jumping into very cold water.
Speaker B:Now, at least at the Norseman, they jump off the boat and then they get to a start line.
Speaker B:So they're not jumping off a boat and going.
Speaker B:They're all jumping off a boat slowly.
Speaker B:They're taking their time.
Speaker B:And part of that, I think, is because it's in the dark.
Speaker B:And so it makes sense to.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:I believe the Swissman is similar.
Speaker B:A Swiss man.
Speaker B:I know they go out on a boat, but I can't remember if they jump off the boat or if they're just taking the boat to the other side of the lake.
Speaker B:But whatever it is, there are other races where you have to jump off boats.
Speaker B:But I think the Escape from Alcatraz is the only one where you jump off the boat as your start.
Speaker B:And that, to me, is just not something I would be interested in.
Speaker A:No, it certainly is a deterrent for sure.
Speaker B:Let's move to our last subject, which is a particularly interesting one, as always.
Speaker B:I'm always amazed, Matt, that you find these really great scientific articles and send them to me because it makes me realize I am not doing my job.
Speaker B:I need to be looking at scientifically.
Speaker A:I'm scanning these journals.
Speaker A:No, I'm definitely not.
Speaker A:These just like randomly pop up into my feed like some kind of health influencer running Influencer will cite a new study and they're doing the work for me.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well, we're just, we're picking, backing off these influencers for sure.
Speaker B:All right, so this one requires a little bit of.
Speaker B:It's going to require a lot of explanation.
Speaker B:I'll try and I'll need that.
Speaker B:Make it concise and it's funny.
Speaker B:I just going to go off on a little bit of a tangent here.
Speaker B:I was a guest on a different podcast and I was talking about Tart cherry juice.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I'm a big believer in the science behind Tartary Jews.
Speaker B:But when I explain some of the science, I have to really use layperson's language and lingo.
Speaker B:And often what I say, if it's taken out of context, doesn't necessarily come across as erudite or as eloquent.
Speaker B:Lost in Translation gets a little Lost in translation.
Speaker B:And they posted a snippet of what I said about Tartary Juice as a reel on Instagram.
Speaker B:And oh, the troll came out in waves.
Speaker B:They had lots to say because I was trying to make it as easy to understand as possible.
Speaker B:And I said, cartridges works by helping with.
Speaker B:It's got all these wonderful chemicals, polyphenols and anthocyanins that help with scavenging.
Speaker B:I will say when I'm talking to my medical friends, I'll say things like evil humors, which is catch all.
Speaker B:But I said something about toxins.
Speaker B:I say what I really mean is all these inflammatory molecules, which are.
Speaker B:They cause a lot of damage in cells, but I can't go there.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:So I said it's going to help with scavenging all these detoxifies, all these toxins.
Speaker B:People didn't like that.
Speaker B:And the trolls, they just came out in waves.
Speaker B:And they were like, oh, you just destroyed your credibility talking about toxins.
Speaker A:And I was like, that'll hit the algorithm in both ways, right?
Speaker A:The detoxifying toxins like that just.
Speaker A:I don't know, you're going to hit the health fluencers and you're going to, you're going to be all over them in a good way.
Speaker A:And then the more educated, and they.
Speaker B:Think they're more educated because some of the ways they were making their, shall we say, critique was maybe not betraying the highest educated.
Speaker B:Anyways, we're going to try and parse this one out in a way that is understandable.
Speaker B:So you will forgive me if I perhaps mention things.
Speaker A:I'm a layperson, so you get to explain to me.
Speaker A:And you're layperson.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:The title of this article is Heat to Hypoxia Cross Adaptation Effects of a six Week Post Exercise Hot Water Immersion on Exercise Performance in Acute Hypoxia.
Speaker B:That is a mouthful.
Speaker B:Basically, we know that if you do heat acclimation in the form of exercise in a hot environment, you get a lot of physiologic changes that make you better adapted and better able to perform in the heat.
Speaker B:And this is something that has been well established through a whole bunch of different experiments.
Speaker B:And this is why you will see people like Lionel doing these crazy workouts in increased humidity leading up to Kona.
Speaker B:He will be like fully clothed in a humid box and doing all this stuff.
Speaker B:And that has been shown to be quite efficient and quite effective.
Speaker B:But there are ways to actually do heat acclimation without having to go to all of that trouble.
Speaker B:You can just do hot water immersion.
Speaker B:Yeah, you could do it passive and active.
Speaker A:Those are the two.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So the active way is to do the exercise and heat.
Speaker B:The passive way is to do your regular training and then immediately after your training to do either sauna work or hot water immersion, like in a whirlpool.
Speaker B:And I will say that a lot of these things are incredibly time intensive.
Speaker B:Like we're talking 40 minutes to an hour and also very potentially dangerous.
Speaker B:Like we're talking 40 minutes sitting in 40 degree water which is like 107 degrees.
Speaker B:It's hot, it's hot.
Speaker B:And like in this paper they're talking about people getting their core temperature up to 39 degrees, 39 plus degrees.
Speaker B:This is potentially not the safest thing to be doing for most people.
Speaker B:So I want to give that caveat that people shouldn't be running out to do this all that to say that the passive stuff does work quite well, you change your physiology quite well and best of all it translates to better performance even in temperate areas where it's not so hot.
Speaker A:Yeah, it just the physiological benefits that it, that Occurs.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not exclusive to heat.
Speaker A:It's for everything.
Speaker A:Your body is just better in all conditions.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And there was this supposition by these authors that there may be benefits to other kinds of physiologic harsh realities.
Speaker B:And one of them that they thought about was training in low oxygen environments and they went really low.
Speaker B:They went to 12%.
Speaker B:So to give you a perspective, normal sea level atmospheric oxygen is 21%.
Speaker B:Here in Colorado, Denver, Boulder, we are looking at about 16.5%, a pretty significant difference from 21%.
Speaker B:But we're nowhere close to 21%.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:To 12%.
Speaker B:If you want to get to 12 to 13%, you need to go to La Paz, Bolivia, which is like very high.
Speaker B:What would that be like, like 10,000?
Speaker B:It's like 10,000.
Speaker A:Okay, so like over 2,000, 3,000 meters?
Speaker B:Oh yeah, it's three, 3,500 meters or so.
Speaker A:Oh wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:That is high.
Speaker B:It's really high.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you got it like Breckenridge, that kind of stuff.
Speaker B:It's very high.
Speaker B:Anyways, they wanted to know, does this hot water acclimation give the kinds of physiologic benefits that will translate to training or to performance in hypoxia?
Speaker B:Now I'm not sure why, because people aren't going to be training or aren't going to be performing in that kind of hypoxia very frequently.
Speaker B:But I guess it was, hey, if you're doing well at 12%, you'll be doing really well at 16%.
Speaker B:And it turns out that, yeah, it really was quite impressive.
Speaker B:So what they did was they put people through these very intensive 6 week interval cycling programs and then they would have them immediately after their exercise sessions.
Speaker B:They would sit in 42 degree water or Celsius or 34 and a half degrees Celsius water, which is still pretty warm, it's just not quite as hot.
Speaker B:And they would sit in that water for 40 minutes, 40 to 50 minutes.
Speaker B:And they did this five times a week.
Speaker B:And they measured all kinds of different parameters before and then they had them do these exercise tests after the study was concluded and found that both groups had improvements across the board.
Speaker B:But the improvement in the very hot water was about a third more than in just the warm water, which is very impressive.
Speaker A:Yeah, like I guess, man, there's a lot to take away from this maybe headline.
Speaker A:It's do you really need to go to altitude to get like this boost or can you just do this at home?
Speaker B:So again, I want to make the very Important caveat.
Speaker B:This is incredibly time intensive.
Speaker B:You need to have access to very hot water.
Speaker B:You have to be able to sit in that hot water for a good long time.
Speaker B:After all of your training, you have to do so safely.
Speaker B:You really gotta be careful.
Speaker B:This is potentially dangerous and should not be done by anybody who's pregnant.
Speaker B:Should not be done by anybody who has any kind of health issues, especially cardiac issues.
Speaker B:I'm giving all the caveats because I feel like we have to.
Speaker B:If we're gonna advocate for this.
Speaker B:But if you're a very healthy individual and you're looking for some kind of boost, this is a potential way to get your altitude acclimation without going to altitude.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:The thing is, obviously we live at altitude, but for many athletes, lots of athletes, it's just not accessible.
Speaker A:Maybe due to life circumstances, financial.
Speaker A:I'm taking three weeks away to do a camp.
Speaker A:Like, it's just not feasible.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So really, that, to me, is what interests me the most.
Speaker A:So for athletes who have these constraints, can they get the same or even more benefit than packing up for three weeks and going to altitude?
Speaker A:Do you think that's a thing?
Speaker B:I think it's a thing.
Speaker B:Now, look, this is one study.
Speaker B:There are other physiologists who have theorized this, and they have books.
Speaker B:And it makes sense because the physiologic changes you get from heat acclimation include the kinds of physiologic changes that you also see with training at altitude in terms of different.
Speaker B:Different shifts in hemoglobin, different shifts in total body plasma and cardiac output.
Speaker B:So all of these things make sense that one would help the other.
Speaker B:The interesting thing is nobody has suggested that altitude acclimation helps with heat because as far as I could tell, it does not.
Speaker B:I suffer mightily in the heat, so I don't know that it goes the other way.
Speaker B:But I have athletes who are coming to Boulder who have asked me, well, what can I do to prepare?
Speaker B:And I said, honestly, there's nothing.
Speaker B:Now, I think there is something.
Speaker B:I think that giving people a heat protocol, and I dare say I wouldn't be as aggressive as this.
Speaker B:I would probably say, look, just do the sauna work.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Given the altitude that people are actually competing at, most likely you don't need to be.
Speaker A:And 40.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:42°C.
Speaker B:42°C.
Speaker B:Water for 40 to 50 minutes.
Speaker A:No, that's.
Speaker A:That, to me, sounds very dangerous, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:But it clearly.
Speaker A:It just.
Speaker A:I've just observed this over the years in the high performance environment where so much was invested in going to altitude, doing these camps and often like the roi, because people would go up there and just hammer and not properly, I don't know, get used to the altitude.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:People were out of their own routines at home, which are obviously really successful and you'd spend all this money and you'd spend all this time and you'd go up there and it'd be a huge bust.
Speaker A:And so for me, like, obviously now that I live at altitude, it's not much of a problem.
Speaker A:But I always had a problem with altitude because it never really.
Speaker A:You rarely saw the ROI for what was being invested.
Speaker A:So I just think for age group athletes, for everyone really, especially when you have certain constraints like this just to me seems like a no brainer.
Speaker A:Like why would you invest a lot and going to altitude when you could just get this benefit at home?
Speaker B:Assuming you have the time and the access.
Speaker B:Yes, that's for sure.
Speaker A:It just seems way more accessible.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:To me, a lot of age group athletes are limited in time and they don't necessarily have access to a good sauna or even to a whirlpool.
Speaker B:But if you have it this, I think I agree with you 100%.
Speaker B:This is a great way to substitute and get it done.
Speaker A:Altitude is dead.
Speaker A:That's the headline.
Speaker B:We are done for another week.
Speaker B:Matt and I are going to go suffer on the Boulder course now and we want to hear what your thoughts are about all of this or about anything that you'd like to hear us chat about out in the future.
Speaker B:You can drop us a line at the different methods.
Speaker B:You can reach us on our Instagrams.
Speaker B:You can leave a comment in the Talk Tempo talks, Facebook group, whatever it is that you'd like, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker B:Until next week, Matt.
Speaker B:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker A:Yeah, I want to say there's been a lot of great conversations in the Facebook group.
Speaker A:I've been really enjoying everybody's contributions.
Speaker A:Same.
Speaker A:Thanks for throwing it in.
Speaker A:We got a gear review the other day.
Speaker A:I was like, this is sweet.
Speaker A:Give me all the content.
Speaker A:So a lot of fun with everyone in there.
Speaker A:So if you want to join and it's popping.
Speaker B:100% totally agree.
Speaker B:All right, Matt, good luck this weekend.
Speaker B:I look forward to seeing you the morning of.
Speaker B:I will pull those private porta potties.
Speaker A:And I'll get you a vip.
Speaker A:Maybe, I don't know.
Speaker A:I'll give you my wristband.
Speaker A:We'll figure something out.
Speaker A:Ocean's Eleven style.
Speaker B:All right, man.
Speaker B:Take care.
Speaker B:We'll talk to you again soon.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Good luck, Jeff.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub, and it's is produced by me, Jeff Zankoff, and edited by my very talented daughter, Lauren Sankoff.
Speaker B:I hope that you will give a rating and a review wherever you download this content and share it with a friend.
Speaker B:Don't forget to join the Talk Tempo Talks Facebook group where you can ask your questions, leave your comments and just join the conversation.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks will be back again with a new episode next week.
Speaker B:Till then, Feynhard.
