The Ironman Demographics: A Promising Future
The latest installment of Tempo Talks presents an engaging dialogue that traverses the landscape of triathlon training and competition. The episode opens with an insightful analysis of the newly released Ironman demographic data, revealing a significant uptick in participation rates among the youth demographic, specifically those aged 18 to 35. This promising trend indicates a resurgence of interest in the sport, suggesting that triathlon is potentially entering a new golden age. Matthew Sharp and Jeff Sankoff articulate the implications of this data, particularly the rapid sellouts of various North American races, including notable successes in Canada. The hosts stress the importance of this demographic shift for the future of the sport, highlighting the need for triathlon organizations to adapt to these evolving trends to maintain relevance and attract new athletes.
In addition to demographic discussions, the hosts delve into the significance of hill repeats in a triathlete's training regimen. They explore the physiological benefits of this practice, which not only enhances strength but also serves as a critical component of speed training. Matthew and Jeff share their personal experiences with hill workouts, offering valuable insights and recommendations for athletes seeking to improve their running performance. This segment serves as a practical guide, encouraging listeners to incorporate hill training into their routines effectively.
The episode concludes with a thoughtful examination of the health challenges faced by Ironman world champion Sam Laidlow, who has experienced significant setbacks following his recent performances. The hosts speculate on the potential causes of Laidlow's struggles, including the risks associated with overtraining and the physical demands of elite competition. This poignant discussion serves as a reminder of the delicate balance required in high-performance sports, emphasizing the need for athletes to prioritize their health and well-being. The collective themes of the episode underscore the dynamic nature of triathlon, offering listeners both analytical and practical perspectives on the sport today.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@temponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
Welcome to Tempo Talks, a show that brings you analysis of the biggest stories in triathlon training, tips to make you a better athlete and breakdowns of the latest science and performance.
Speaker A:I'm Matthew Sharp, an olympian in triathlon, 70.3 champion and co founder of the Tempo News.
Speaker B:And I'm Jeff Sankoff, the Tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete Magazine, age group winner and coach at Life Sport Coaching.
Speaker B:Our goal, inform and entertain two perspectives.
Speaker B:One sport, all things triathlon.
Speaker B:Now let's get into it.
Speaker B:It's time for Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:I'm Jeff Sankoff, the Tridoc coming to you from Denver, Colorado and joining me back in Colorado himself for the second week.
Speaker B:I guess it's not news, but.
Speaker B:Hey Matt, how are you doing?
Speaker A:Yeah, good.
Speaker A:Happy to be back in Colorado.
Speaker A:I've actually bounced around quite a bit the last week since I've been back.
Speaker A:I was in Boulder and then actually my wife and I, we went up to Vail because she had a pretty serious surgery on her hip.
Speaker A:She had a torn labrum.
Speaker A:So we were up there.
Speaker A:She was getting some really incredible care and got the surgery done up there.
Speaker A:And then now we're actually at the Olympic Training center in Colorado Springs and she's continuing her physiotherapy regimen and her recovery.
Speaker A:So crazy last couple weeks.
Speaker A:She's on the recovery for sure.
Speaker B:Matt Sharp on the tour of Colorado doing the, the little, the how do we call that?
Speaker B:I guess that's the central triangle, right?
Speaker B:Denver to Vail to Colorado Springs.
Speaker A:Yeah, I need to get to the other side though.
Speaker A:I haven't ventured on the other side of the Rockies much.
Speaker B:What's really interesting is I've lived here for 20 plus years and we've been out there.
Speaker B:My wife and I drove out to St.
Speaker B:George for the race and it's an amazing drive.
Speaker B:It is spectacular.
Speaker B:It's so beautiful.
Speaker B:But I haven't really spent a ton of time out there and then my kids had a track meet out in Gunnison.
Speaker B:So I got to drive 285 which is a southern kind of two lane highway that runs across the state and goes through south park if you're familiar with and I it's a back way to get to Breckenridge and so you can.
Speaker B:I have always gone as far as Fair Play and then made the turn to go up to Breck.
Speaker B:But I went out to Gunnison.
Speaker B:I continued down 285.
Speaker B:It's really pretty out that way.
Speaker B:It's really nice.
Speaker B:It's a beautiful state.
Speaker B:We Live in.
Speaker B:And we, we don't get to see a lot of it because we stay on this side of the rocky world.
Speaker A:We're on the trainer the whole time where we get.
Speaker B:We have a pretty good show again today for episode five.
Speaker B:What are we going to be talking about?
Speaker A:Interesting topics today.
Speaker A:So we're going to start off talking about Ironman actually released some new data on demographics and sellouts in North America.
Speaker A:And it's interesting to go through that.
Speaker A:So we'll go through that one.
Speaker A:We'll get into why athletes should be running hill repeats.
Speaker A:I think that's going to be interesting to dig into that.
Speaker A:Then there has been an interesting article posted on Triathlete Magazine talking about is Ironman Pro membership really worth it?
Speaker A:Maybe not as relevant to our audience, but I think maybe I found it interesting and I think maybe we can find some interesting insights from that article.
Speaker A:And then finally we're going to be talking about Sam Laid Low, Ironman world champion.
Speaker A:He's had some health issues recently and we're going to, we're going to dive into that and see, see what's going on.
Speaker B:We're going to speculate.
Speaker A:Oh, yes.
Speaker B:Do a lot of speculating there.
Speaker B:It's a good lineup.
Speaker B:It's got a lot of interesting stuff.
Speaker B:I just want to return for a second to Kirsten's surgery.
Speaker B:Yes, I know she's done very well and her rehab has begun and she's progressing pretty quickly.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That can be a.
Speaker B: I had that surgery back in: Speaker B:I'm glad that she needed less of reconstruction.
Speaker B:So she's just had her labrum reconstructed.
Speaker B:Has she noticed any difference yet?
Speaker B:Has she started to move around in a way that she would notice it?
Speaker B:Yay or nay?
Speaker A:It's, I mean, we were super lucky.
Speaker A:She has incredible support from the US Olympic Committee.
Speaker A:So the surgeon that she saw, Dr.
Speaker A:Philippon, who's actually Canadian, fun fact, he invented this surgery.
Speaker A:She, you know, had some really great care from him.
Speaker A:And it's crazy.
Speaker A:Literally hours after the surgery, she's still high on those drugs.
Speaker A:Whatever cocktail they gave her, she was on the bike riding, a few paddle strokes.
Speaker A:It was crazy to see her get back on the horse, so to speak.
Speaker A:And literally since that surgery, she's been a physio twice a day.
Speaker A:Pretty intense rehab.
Speaker A:She's doing cycling every day.
Speaker A:No resistance, but it's extensive.
Speaker A:She's back in the pool now too.
Speaker A:So the recovery, it'll feel slow, I'm sure, but it seems like she's gonna make some quick wins pretty quickly along the way.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:We all wish Kirsten the best.
Speaker B:We look forward to seeing her back racing hopefully by the end of the summer.
Speaker B:But let's start with the Ironman demographics.
Speaker B:I read something about that in the Tempo News that came out today.
Speaker B:We are recording this on Tuesday for public Friday, but I read about it this morning in the Tempo news.
Speaker B:So tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker A:Matt, that was great.
Speaker A:I love when Ironman releases these things on like a Monday because then I can throw it in the the edition on Tuesday.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's like they timed it for you.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:They might.
Speaker A:We've got a few actually a few Iron man execs who, who read the Tempo.
Speaker A:I don't actually know if they're actually like reading it per se, but they open it.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker A:Anyways, so the Iron man released this data and it honestly falls along the same lines of what we've been talking about the last few episodes with the state of the sport and these reports and whatnot.
Speaker A:It was basically specifically on North American races.
Speaker A:So they basically talked about the sellouts like that we were talking about like last episode or two episodes ago and they shared some pretty interesting demographic data that is very promising for future growths.
Speaker A:So right away they opened with a few of these sellout races.
Speaker A:They highlighted them and shout out to the races in Canada.
Speaker A:A couple of them, Ironman, Ottawa, new race sold out very quickly.
Speaker A:Same with Ironman 70.3 Montremblant.
Speaker A:I'm sure it sells out quickly anyways, but those are the first two.
Speaker A:And then they wanted to talk about Oceanside, Ironman, TX 74 through Chattanooga, OR and a new race in Rockford, Illinois that have all sold out.
Speaker A:And it they basically said these races are selling out a lot quicker than they have in the previous years, which super, super great.
Speaker A:And basically through the issue or through the report, the one thing that stuck out for me was this kind of demographic data and basically they were saying that among the 18 to 35 cohort it's at an all time high, which is cool, really cool to see.
Speaker A:And with full distance racing as well, I think it picked up 30% year over year.
Speaker A:So really exciting data.
Speaker A:There's also some stuff on 50,000 athletes cross the finish line for the first time in a North American race.
Speaker A:Jeff, I'd love to know what you think about this, these kind of data.
Speaker B:I think there are a few things to take away from it that are really Encouraging.
Speaker B:You and I both being Canadian.
Speaker B:I think that the fact that both Tremblant and Ottawa sold out very quickly is really heartening because we both know that the Ironman tradition has been strong in Canada for a long time.
Speaker B:And yet the Penticton race moved away from Penticton, it came back to Penticton and now it's no more.
Speaker B:And that.
Speaker B:That was really sad.
Speaker B:There is a 70.3 race out west.
Speaker B:It's in Victoria, but it seems to always be tenuous.
Speaker B:They have a new race director this year.
Speaker A:I didn't know that.
Speaker B:It's all.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's always hard to know what the footing is of that race.
Speaker B:But I'm glad to see that one continues.
Speaker B:And it seems I've done that race.
Speaker B:I loved it.
Speaker B:I thought it was a really well run and a really great.
Speaker B:And I'm hopeful that race will.
Speaker B:It sells out.
Speaker B:It does very well.
Speaker B:I shouldn't say.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:I take back if it sells out.
Speaker A:But I think it's always on the bubble of selling out.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's always close to selling out and it's a very popular race and it's just great.
Speaker B:It's very well supported by a community.
Speaker B:Tremblant has.
Speaker B:Historically, the 70.3 has sold out for years and years.
Speaker B:And the reason the Ottawa Ironman came on the scene was because the Mont Tremblant Ironman was not selling out.
Speaker B:It had seen declining numbers and they felt like they needed to refresh the Ironman in that region.
Speaker B:But the fact that these races in Canada continue to sell out means that there's likely a thirst for more.
Speaker B:I believe the Calgary race is still going on.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:I think a lot of folks go to that one as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think there's room for more for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:Especially when the exchange rate is so good for folks coming up from America.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:If you look at the.
Speaker A:If the.
Speaker A:Look at the pricing, I think in the U.S.
Speaker A:70.3 is about what, $450 or something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For an age grouper.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And in.
Speaker A:In Canadian dollars, I looked and it was 475.
Speaker A:So really it's only 300 something us hey, if you're American, you think about going to Canada, we'll always take some nice tourism dollars.
Speaker A:And hey, the races are a little.
Speaker B:Cheaper up north and the races are beautiful.
Speaker B:The Calgary race is a beautiful race.
Speaker B:I've done that one as well.
Speaker B:Trom Blanc is fantastic.
Speaker B:They're all really.
Speaker B:I think Ottawa is Going to be amazing.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a city race, which I'm not always thrilled about, but it is going to be cool race to do.
Speaker B:I considered it, but Ironman's kind of off the table for me.
Speaker B:The other thing is just this surge of numbers in the 18 to 35, I think is huge.
Speaker B:We have seen over the past few years, I've mentioned it previously, that there's been a skewing of the racers in the age groups to the older age groups.
Speaker B:There was always that, that middle sort of.
Speaker B:There was always that peak in the 30 to 40, but there was still this very large kind of cohort that was in the older 40s and 50s that had been in the sport for a really long time and were continuing to keep the sport almost afloat.
Speaker B:And there was this fear that we weren't going to see this influx.
Speaker B:And it's so nice to see that's happening now.
Speaker B:I think that's great.
Speaker B:And I know you had some thoughts as to what might be driving that.
Speaker A:My kind of overall take is essentially we've got two structural tailwinds that are driving this 18 to 35 kind of cohort.
Speaker A:One of the things is just that millennial generation, the Gen Z's coming up behind them.
Speaker A:There's, I think in North America or whatever, there's about 150 million of them.
Speaker A:They just are getting into this fitness boom.
Speaker A:Like there's a running boom right now.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:That's what's happening with this cohort.
Speaker A:And at the end of the day, they're going to do their marathon, they're going to do their half marathon.
Speaker A:Then maybe they're going to look for something else.
Speaker A:And I think maybe now is the time they're looking for something else.
Speaker A:We're seeing crazy numbers, I think I put in the newsletter today, over 200,000 people entered this New York City Marathon lottery that I think only like 3% were going to get a spot.
Speaker A:So there's the demand for endurance sports especially.
Speaker A:Yeah, from this cohort is huge.
Speaker A:And also there's just in society, there's this kind of trend.
Speaker A:There's this growing almost obsession with longevity, with wellness.
Speaker A:And I think this kind of falls in that bucket as well.
Speaker A:So I think there's these kind of two big structural tailwinds that are driving the growth of this younger cohort, which is great for the sport.
Speaker A:We'll take it.
Speaker A:We'll take whatever we can get.
Speaker B:And the one thing that we always worry about is the cost of keeping people away, that the cost of the sport is an issue.
Speaker B:Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case because if the younger age group's coming in, they're obviously able to afford it, and that's great.
Speaker B:I think that's fantastic.
Speaker B:And this idea that 50,000 new athletes.
Speaker B:I used to worry that a lot of these people were coming in and they were going to be one and done.
Speaker B:But I've picked up.
Speaker B:In the last year, I've picked up four athletes.
Speaker B:Four or five athletes in the 18 to 35 in this age group.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And all of them are sticking it out.
Speaker B:They're all doing multiple races and talking as if they're going to be in this for a while.
Speaker B:And I have been very heartened by that because previously I was picking up athletes in that age group and they were coming in.
Speaker B:Oh, I'm just going to.
Speaker B:I just want to do this one race.
Speaker B:It's a bucket list thing.
Speaker B:And then they go on their way to do whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that doesn't seem to be the case, at least with my very anecdotal experience here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm curious, like, Jeff, when did you pick up triathlon?
Speaker A:What age were you?
Speaker B:I was in that 30 to 35 age group.
Speaker B:I had just finished my residency and fellowship, and so it was 20 something years ago.
Speaker B:So, yeah, I was in.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B: It was: Speaker B:So, yeah, that's when I started.
Speaker A:Were kids in on the table?
Speaker A:Like, were you.
Speaker A:Had.
Speaker A:You already had, like, your kids then, or what was the timing like?
Speaker B: ughter, my oldest was born in: Speaker B:So I had like, three, four years before, and that was a problem because then I was hooked.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker B:And tried to do this when trying to do it at the level I was trying to do it with.
Speaker B:And I've talked about this on the Tridoc podcast frequently.
Speaker B:Trying to do this when you have a young family.
Speaker B:This is a selfish sport.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a selfish sport.
Speaker B:And you.
Speaker B:You have to put things in perspective.
Speaker B:I didn't do a good job of that, and nobody was happy.
Speaker A:So I know your kids are pretty awesome.
Speaker A:So I feel like you did well.
Speaker B:And I think in the end, I kind of figured it out.
Speaker B:And fortunately, I.
Speaker B:Fortunately, they see me as a role model.
Speaker B:And they're my twins, especially.
Speaker B:They're really avid athletes, and they're constantly referring to how hard I work as motivating them to work as hard as they do.
Speaker B:And it's very.
Speaker B:Yeah, that really is it makes it all worth it, but we should move on to the next topic.
Speaker B:Speaking of working hard, and that topic is whether or not why and whether or not you should be doing hill repeats in.
Speaker B:As part of your run routine.
Speaker B:And I have always viewed this, and I'm super interested in your take on this, Matt, because as a professional, I know that in the past I have seen stories of a lot of pros that work with certain coaches that really believe that run hill repeats are a very important part of any kind of run program.
Speaker B:And they serve a runner really well in two ways.
Speaker B:Number one, they really help build run strength, and number two, they serve as a kind of modified speed workout.
Speaker B:Is that kind of how you view them?
Speaker A:Yeah, I've definitely heard the saying running uphill is speed work in disguise.
Speaker A:I'm like thinking about my.
Speaker A:My career and all that, and I feel like it fluctuated with the coaches.
Speaker A:Although I will say, as I progressed through the sport and had more experienced coaches, I feel like hills were always on the menu, always on the training menu.
Speaker A:Whether that was really short ones or getting into longer hill reps.
Speaker A:I've actually been doing some longer ones.
Speaker A:You know, before I did my toe, I was jumping, getting back into some hill, longer hill reps.
Speaker A:And I do think really, the.
Speaker A:The thing with hills that I really like, it's obviously you're working really hard and, you know, you're getting that good hip extension and you're getting that speed, developing the power, but without that mechanical load, instead of doing a 400 rep or a 200 rep, getting that, I guess, more of effects of gravity, would you say?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the mechanical load, unfortunately does come if you then run down the hill.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:So you do have to be careful how you do.
Speaker B:Like, some coaches will have you run up the hill and then walk down.
Speaker B:Some of them will have you run up the hill and jog down.
Speaker B:I have never done hill repeats or.
Speaker B:Nor do I give them to my athletes.
Speaker B:Like, I don't tell them to run up the hill and then run down.
Speaker B:I usually have them run up the hill hard and then come down super easy as the recovery.
Speaker B:But when you're doing hill repeats, do you do the hill repeat?
Speaker B:In terms of the up part, Are you doing it by time or are you doing it by distance?
Speaker A:Usually by time, I would say.
Speaker A:I'd say when you're doing shorter hill reps, mostly up to, I would say anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds, really for the short ones and then for the longer ones, like anything above four minutes.
Speaker A:They're both different in their own way.
Speaker B:And what about the incline?
Speaker B:Is it, does it matter?
Speaker B:Does it have to be a really steep Hill or is 1 or 2% okay?
Speaker A:I don't like.
Speaker A:Personally I think it needs to be at least 4 to 5%.
Speaker A:Ideally I don't think 1 or 2% is targeting what you need.
Speaker A:Like, you might as well just be running on the flat in my opinion.
Speaker A:But for shorter hill reps, you'd want to like you could do a steeper hill because it's shorter.
Speaker A:I don't think you want to do.
Speaker A:If you're doing longer hill reps, I don't think you want to do anything above 6 to 8% if you're doing, going for four minutes plus uphill.
Speaker A:To me that doesn't seem like it's worth it.
Speaker B:So what do you consider a, a, a standard sort of hill, repeat distance, Distance or.
Speaker B:Sorry, not distance.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:Excuse me, interval time.
Speaker A:I would say for shorter hill reps you're working on that speed, that power anywhere 15 to 30 seconds.
Speaker A:And then for longer hill reps I got, I feel like above four minutes is great.
Speaker A:Four to six minutes anywhere around there.
Speaker A:And maybe grade wise 4 to 6%, something like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'll prescribe them for my athletes anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes for the, on the shorter side.
Speaker B:And if it's going to be the longer side, I'll make them about four minutes but definitely at a lower speed for the longer ones because when you're looking at the longer ones, in my mind that's more of a strength interval and the shorter ones is a speed work type of interval.
Speaker B:And I really want them to get to that sort of anaerobic threshold.
Speaker A:Is there?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I feel like maybe periodizing your hills as well.
Speaker A:Like I like, like shorter hills, I feel like you can do all year round for the most part you're working on neuromuscular activation.
Speaker A:But I feel like longer hills, maybe that's more of a preseason situation.
Speaker A:What do you think?
Speaker B:So this is the thing that I, I worry about.
Speaker B:So especially with an age grouper, less so with pros.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Obviously you guys are running huge amounts of volume.
Speaker B:It's less of an issue for you guys.
Speaker B:And you're also just phenomenal athletes.
Speaker B:For the age grouper, the there's two ways age groupers get into injury problems with running.
Speaker B:One is too much volume too soon and the other one is speed work too.
Speaker B:Like any speed work before you've run adapted and hills are speed work.
Speaker B:And so I Am very cautious.
Speaker B:I really work my athletes in terms of how much volume they do.
Speaker B:I it's a very slow progression.
Speaker B:I have them running like 30 minutes at a time, maybe three times a week for quite a while.
Speaker B:Before I built before I have built them up to the point that they're finally able to do three or four runs a week with one of them being a long run that gets progressively longer.
Speaker B:And then only once I feel like they've run and responded well to a certain amount of volume, then I will introduce the speed work because I just don't feel like speed work is that important early in the year because if they don't have a race until June, I don't want them getting hurt in February.
Speaker B:So by generally by March I'm introducing speed work.
Speaker B:And I think the longer hill reps are what I'm going to introduce first because I don't want them going out and getting into problems.
Speaker B:And the problems that an age grouper is going to have by doing these hill repeats is going to be Achilles.
Speaker B:It's going to be hamstrings because you're really pushing off and it's that post exterior chain that's getting a lot of load on doing these things.
Speaker B:And so I want to be really sure that they have spent that time early in the season building up their muscles and tendons and just really having that adaptation to the volume so that they can handle these things.
Speaker A:So for an age group athlete, say you give them a quality hill workout, those two minute efforts, how long after that workout would you have them do another quality run?
Speaker A:Doesn't matter if it's hill or hills or not.
Speaker B:Depends on their age and it depends on their experience.
Speaker B:So I have, most of my athletes are right now they're hitting their stride on training and so most of them will have one speed workout say on a Wednesday and then they'll have their long run on a Sunday.
Speaker B:So I separated out by enough that they can recover.
Speaker B:They might do a brick run on Saturday.
Speaker B:So they'll do a long bike and then just a 30 or 45 minute run after off the bike.
Speaker B:So it's a short enough run that they can get the run off the bike feel, but they're not gonna do anything that's gonna exhaust them for being able to run the next day.
Speaker B:And the that run the next day is gonna be if they're the kind of athlete that many of my athletes are, it's gonna be a progression run.
Speaker B:So they're gonna start off at a fairly slow, comfortable pace.
Speaker B:But by the time they finish, they're running at a much higher pace.
Speaker B:And it's that ability, it, it teaches that ability to be able to run faster when you're fatigued and be able to maintain your form and maintain good pace when you're getting late into a race.
Speaker B:Because that's something we all need to learn how to do.
Speaker A:Truly.
Speaker A:And it's, it sounds like you're not giving them 20 mile uphill runs like the Norwegians do.
Speaker B:Generally not.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The stuff that those guys do is incredible.
Speaker B:And it obviously hits the algorithm.
Speaker A:Whenever they do crazy workouts like that.
Speaker B:People, it's, it's pretty amazing.
Speaker B:And obviously they've had amazing success.
Speaker B:But to sit here and pretend that it's going to work for everyone or to pretend that it's going to work for the average age grouper, I think is probably.
Speaker A:Yeah, we could probably nail some other things before we nail the uphill 20 mile run.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker B:I think so.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:I think.
Speaker B:Oh, and the other thing I want to say is, and I think it's worth mentioning is what do we do when we live in a place that doesn't have hills?
Speaker B:Because there are going to be people living in Florida, people living in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They don't have access to 4 to 8% hills that they can run on a regular basis.
Speaker B:So what are your suggestions for how they can manage that?
Speaker A:Yeah, there's a few options for sure.
Speaker A:If you have a treadmill, you can do the incline on the treadmill.
Speaker A:That's fairly obvious and I think probably almost just as effective as running up a hill.
Speaker A:It's the same thing really.
Speaker A:There's also stairs you could, if you got some big stairs, I don't know, in your local track or something, you could run up those and resistance sled pulls or pushes.
Speaker A:I think, because ultimately all those exercises are, you're getting that full extension, you're working the posterior chain, the glutes, the hamstrings, the calves, exactly like you would running up the hill.
Speaker A:So if you're pushing a sled and you're doing that, your body's not gonna really know the difference.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:I, I use during the winter when my athletes are having to train indoors.
Speaker B:I have a couple of different incline treadmill workouts.
Speaker B:One of them is a, is like a ramp where they're, they're going all the way up to 12%, increasing it every minute.
Speaker B:Another one is, they're doing intervals anywhere from 2 to 4%.
Speaker B:So it's a short hill climb.
Speaker B:Versus the longer one.
Speaker A:So do your athletes like when you give them those workouts?
Speaker B:They do.
Speaker B:They look at it.
Speaker B:They look at it and they're like, oh my gosh, this does not look like fun.
Speaker B:And then when they finish, they invariably end up saying that was a really challenging workout, but it was doable and it was actually enjoyable.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right, let's take it to the next topic.
Speaker B:If you have questions about any of what you're hearing here in terms of coaching or in terms of some of the topics we're discussing, I hope that you will let us know.
Speaker B:We would love to interact with you.
Speaker B:You can reach either of us on our Instagram channels, which for me is try coaching.
Speaker B:All one word.
Speaker A:And for Matt it is D1.
Speaker B:And what's your email, Matt, for people, if they want to reach out to you?
Speaker A:For the Tempo Talks audience, hit me up@matthemponews.com so we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker B:Yeah, we would love to hear from you.
Speaker B:Positive or with constructive criticism for improvements to the show.
Speaker B:We want to hear that too.
Speaker B:You could reach me by email@tridocloud.com all of that information is in the show notes in case you missed it.
Speaker B:Let's move on to our third topic, which is an article that was published by a friend of the Tempo News, Jordan Blanco.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Magazine.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, this was an intriguing article.
Speaker A:Stumbled on it.
Speaker A:Shout out Jordan for putting in the effort to write this one.
Speaker A:She talks about the thesis of the article or the big question is, is the Ironman Pro membership really worth it?
Speaker A:And yeah, it's an interesting article.
Speaker A:It starts off by talking about the benefits and the drawbacks of this pro membership.
Speaker A: w it works is Pros pay about $: Speaker A: But for your: Speaker A:One of the things that the article also points out is you don't actually have to buy this Ironman Pro membership.
Speaker A:That's just if you're going to race a ton of pro races full distance, 70.3s, whatever.
Speaker A:Ultimately if you are a pro, you can still race one off races and it's broken down as $250 for 70.3 and $500 for a full distance.
Speaker A:So you can just do one off races if you're not doing a full suite of Ironman races.
Speaker A:So they upped it this year and there was a Bit of chatter about that in the pro try world.
Speaker A:I think Ironman, what they said about their price increase was that it was to do with kind of this enhanced anti doping program, which honestly we've had a few of these positive tests last few years so it feels like it's something that is worth investing in.
Speaker A:And also, I guess they didn't excite explicitly, but the pro series, the new pro series they brought in last year, I think they upped the overall prize money by about $400,000 or a few million actually.
Speaker A:It was a few million, I think.
Speaker A:So that was all a part of this increase in prices.
Speaker A:One of the things that Jordan brought up in the article was that she calculated that Ironman with, let's say everybody bought a pro license.
Speaker A:I think they would make over a million dollars in revenue.
Speaker A:But really I don't think all pro athletes like, I don't buy a pro membership typically I'll just buy races when I know I'm going to be race.
Speaker A:So I don't know if they're actually making that much.
Speaker A:And yeah, during the article as well, she talked about I guess the, the kind of benefits versus of this pro membership and compared and contrasted it to an age group membership.
Speaker A:And when you're reading this, you're oh, like this seems like a pretty good deal.
Speaker A:So for you think so, Jeff?
Speaker B:I wasn't sure what she was getting at with the article.
Speaker B:I gotta tell you now I write for triathlete and I know that sometimes, often they reach out to me and they say, hey, we've got this article we'd like you to write.
Speaker B:And sometimes we pitch, sometimes I'll go to them and I'll say, hey, I've got this idea for an article.
Speaker B:So I don't know if this was them going to her and saying, hey, could you write this article?
Speaker B:We want to gin up some controversy about this Ironman pro membership or if she pitched us to them.
Speaker B: is straight as a pro, you pay: Speaker B: ny as you want, but basically: Speaker B:You cannot do the race you paid to sign up for and you can just decide, oh, at the last minute, I'm not going to do Oceanside, I'll do Indian Wells instead.
Speaker B:At the end of the Year and that's okay.
Speaker B:And oh, by the way, you get your private transition area with your private porta potties which I mean I am going to say, I am going to say if they ever come out with the elite area in the Ironman transition zone for age groupers to have their own little private porta potty thing, I guarantee you that is a million dollars waiting to be made.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is a total sidebar conversation but Ironman should definitely create a delta comfort plus type tier with Iron man because.
Speaker B:With that they've got the VI for the spectators they need to have.
Speaker B:Anyways, we're going off on a tangent.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Why don't you tell us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:How much is like a.
Speaker A:So a Pro 70.3, 250 Pro Ironman full distance is 500.
Speaker A:So how much is that for age group racing?
Speaker B:So it's four something depending on when you sign up, depending on what tier you get in.
Speaker B:I think it starts at 425 for an age group 70.3.
Speaker B:I haven't signed up for an Ironman in a while but I think it's six something for the Ironman for the first tier.
Speaker B:And I, yeah, I don't know, I just, I wasn't look for her to say that this was generating, the way she worded it in the article was that this was generating a large amount of their revenue at a million dollars or whatever it was.
Speaker B:And I was like they're paying out significantly more than that in pro purse.
Speaker B:And the fact of the matter is there's.
Speaker B:The number of pros is pretty small compared to the number of age groupers who are ponying up as much as they are.
Speaker B:And I know that the pros are not in the merchandise tent.
Speaker A:No, definitely not.
Speaker B:Age groupers are.
Speaker B:So I don't like, I don't think this is a big.
Speaker B:That's why I wasn't sure what she was.
Speaker B:It almost felt like she was trying to stir the pot of controversy and, and I wasn't sure what the controversy was.
Speaker B:So I was interested to hear what you thought because I don't know, you said there's chatter.
Speaker B:So what's the chatter people really like?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Like we've talked, we've talked over and over about whether or not should they charge more for age group 2 age groupers to get doping controls and I have said, oh please bring it.
Speaker B:Right now we actually see they are charging a bit more for better doping controls.
Speaker B:You can't tell me the pros are really that upset about that.
Speaker B:Are they?
Speaker A:No, I just remember when they first announced the price change, I think it was December or something.
Speaker A:People were, were like, what is this?
Speaker A:Freaking out like Iron Man.
Speaker A:They're just trying to make money.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're trying to make money.
Speaker A:That's literally there.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's their existence.
Speaker B:Where are you confused?
Speaker A:Yeah, honestly, like when they announced it was going up $250, like I, I was actually pleasantly surprised in a way because really I think pro men's pro racing is probably one of the biggest growth factors or growth demographics of Ironman.
Speaker B:Racing industries and triathlon.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A: , especially Starting like in: Speaker A:And athletes who had been racing for years and years, like they're used to signing up maybe even two weeks before the race, whatever it is, all of a sudden now you gotta be watching this PDF that they refresh every, whatever few days to make sure that you're not gonna miss the opening of the signup date.
Speaker A:Like, basically what I'm saying is demand is high and they could probably, they could probably raise the price even more for these pro races for sure.
Speaker B:Well, it's because there's so many pros that's the problem.
Speaker B:And look, there's levels of pros, right?
Speaker B:There's the pros who have a chance to win and then there's this whole group.
Speaker A:There's a newsletter.
Speaker B:Pros.
Speaker B:Yeah, there's this whole group of pros who are.
Speaker B:They're pros and they've earned their pro card and I'm not taking that away from them.
Speaker B:But they're not legitimately going to compete for money on a given race.
Speaker B:And I can understand that for them.
Speaker B:The idea of this fifteen hundred dollars is probably not a.
Speaker B:The math probably doesn't work out because they're not sponsored, they're not going to be in the money.
Speaker B:They have to pay a lot to travel.
Speaker B:I 100% get that.
Speaker B:If you're however, coming from, I don't know, a family who supports you or maybe you've got a trust fund, who knows?
Speaker B:1500 bucks to cover six races, that's a pretty good deal.
Speaker A:To me.
Speaker A:It seems like a pretty good deal.
Speaker A:It honestly, I'm surprised they didn't raise their prices more.
Speaker A:If they do, people are going to blame me talking about it on this podcast, I'm sure.
Speaker B:Bring it.
Speaker B:We're here for you anyways.
Speaker B:Private porta potties alone.
Speaker B:Gotta cover at Least some of that.
Speaker B:All right, let's move on to our last subject, and that is the unfortunate the woes of one Sam Laidlaw.
Speaker B:The Frenchman who was the Ironman world champion just a couple of years ago, found himself in the lead off the bike in Kona this past October.
Speaker B:And then things didn't go as well.
Speaker A:The wheels fell off, so to speak.
Speaker B:The wheels fell off?
Speaker B:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:It was not fun watching him as he moved down the Queen K on the run.
Speaker B:I for one, was pretty concerned with the way he looked and thought that he should potentially be pulled off the course because he looked like he was in real disease.
Speaker A:It was fairly early into the run, like before the halfway mark, wasn't it?
Speaker B:It was before the halfway.
Speaker B:It was before the Energy Lab and he did not look good.
Speaker B:And he looked like a man who was in trouble, in distress.
Speaker B:And to his credit, he finished, I think, 17th even, and I proved me wrong.
Speaker A:And he got the bike course record too, I believe.
Speaker A:I think he got the bike course record, didn't he?
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's probably part of why he struggled so much.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Guys who overbike are.
Speaker B:It's very common for them to have that happen.
Speaker B:Anyways, since Kona, he's had just a litany of problems.
Speaker B:He's not been able to train, he's not been able to race, and now his whole season's in doubt.
Speaker B:What do you know about it, Matt?
Speaker B:Have you heard anything?
Speaker B:And what do you.
Speaker B:Now, I want to preface this part.
Speaker B:We are not at all connected to Matt.
Speaker B:Connected to Matt.
Speaker B:I'm connected to Matt, but we are not connected to Sam and we don't have any privy inside information.
Speaker B:This is going to be entirely speculative on our part and you should take this conversation as just that, entirely speculative.
Speaker B:But with that being said, Matt, would.
Speaker A:You like to speculate he has provided, I feel like some information.
Speaker A:He's been doing a lot of YouTube videos talking about his health woes and really that Kona episode, it seems like it really either started or was the first sign of this health decline.
Speaker A:I think he went to Dubai and didn't end up racing because he actually, I think he got a calf tear either.
Speaker A:Before the Dubai T100 in.
Speaker A:In November, there was that he went to to try and do 70.3 worlds and I think he was still struggling with the calf, so he had to pull the plug.
Speaker A:And then I think in December he started training again and said he was feeling pretty good.
Speaker A:But then after that, like into the new year, it sounds like the wheels Fell off like he was trying to train and he would go out for these sessions and basically have to stop or it just, he couldn't push.
Speaker A:And he's been, from what I've seen in his videos, been saying certain organs, like he's been throwing out kidney.
Speaker A:I think he threw out the spleen as well.
Speaker A:Not working.
Speaker A:So, you know, it's undiagnosed.
Speaker A:At the end of the day it seems to be undiagnosed.
Speaker B:And so I'm going to speculate just based on what I've seen, which is minimal.
Speaker B:I haven't seen much.
Speaker B:I've just seen what he said and he's casting about and he's oh, I took too much salt and I got dehydrated and now my organs aren't working and all of my tests are coming back normal and all of that spells to me over training, that's really what it sounds like.
Speaker B:He, he put in a huge effort.
Speaker B:He put in a big season last year building up to Kona.
Speaker B:He turned himself inside out.
Speaker B:And look, it's impossible to know what happens to our physiology when you go through that kind of effort both mentally and physically.
Speaker B:There's no doubt in my mind that can leave a significant toll that is not necessarily going to show up on lab tests or X rays or anything else.
Speaker B:The problem is the longer this goes undiagnosed, the more likely that he's going to keep casting about until he finally comes up with something that fits his narrative of what's wrong.
Speaker B:So don't be surprised if you hear about one of these like obscure sort of fringy, not really medical sort of things that end up being the explanation.
Speaker B:And this often happens when traditional medicine can't provide an answer, which we sometimes can't.
Speaker B:And listen, the reality is probably what's going on here is he's just over trained and over training with the huge physiologic stress that he took in October can manifest like this.
Speaker B:It can be very long lasting and it can have completely normal tests.
Speaker B:So the question now becomes how long will it take for him to emerge from this and come back and be able to be who he was?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So here's the thing with, with any athlete with him, would there have been signs that he would be ignoring in his training before this happened?
Speaker A:Is this, he's clearly becoming like a cautionary tale for whatever over training?
Speaker A:Like how would other athletes, how would age group athletes, are there signs that they could?
Speaker B:In general, overtraining is a Tough one, right?
Speaker B:It's really hard.
Speaker B:But usually it's just this.
Speaker B:You don't sleep well, you're more irritable.
Speaker B:Those are generally the first signs.
Speaker B:And then you start to have appetite irregularities, so you start to not be able to take in as many calories as you need to be.
Speaker B:And you get into this kind of cycle because as you can't fuel, you become more irritable, you.
Speaker B:You don't sleep well, you don't recover well, and suddenly you're just.
Speaker B:You're not able to train.
Speaker B:Your heart rate goes higher, your.
Speaker B:Your breathing isn't as.
Speaker B:You're not able to produce as much power and it just feeds in on itself.
Speaker B:And it is a very difficult spiral to get out of it.
Speaker B:It requires just prolonged amounts of rest.
Speaker B:And that's why it's such a dangerous thing to find yourself in and why it's so important to avoid.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it's hard.
Speaker B:It's hard.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, it sounds like a very tricky situation for him.
Speaker A:I think we all hope he gets his health back, gets back to the training.
Speaker A:I know he's slated to compete.
Speaker A:I think he announced he wants to compete at Challenge Roth, which is a big race and it's in July.
Speaker A:So he's got some time, I think.
Speaker A:Maybe take some time.
Speaker B:I certainly hope so.
Speaker B:I certainly hope so.
Speaker B:I think the sport is better with him in it.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:Great character.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:So the media loves him.
Speaker A:We the media.
Speaker A:I'm the media.
Speaker A:And he's great.
Speaker A:He's a great character.
Speaker B:All right, I think we've reached the end of another episode.
Speaker B:Matt, thanks so much for another interesting conversation and thanks to all of our listeners who were here.
Speaker B:If you would be so kind as to consider leaving us a rating and a review, we would be very grateful.
Speaker B:Wherever you download the show, you can do that.
Speaker B:It helps a lot in make the show, in making the show more visible wherever people might find it.
Speaker B:Matt, thanks again for a great conversation.
Speaker B:We will be back next week for another episode of of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:I look forward to chatting with you then.
Speaker A:Perfect.
Speaker A:Yeah, looking forward to it, Jeff, and appreciate your insights as always.
Speaker A:Thanks for coming on again.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub and was produced and edited by me, Jeff Zankoff.
Speaker B:The music heard at the beginning and the end of the show is rock by Henry Graggart and is used under a Creative Commons license from Pixabay.
Speaker B:Tempo Talks will be back again next week, the new episode.
Speaker B:Until then, please consider leaving us a rating and a review and subscribe to the show wherever you get your audio content.
