Ep 20: Preparing for Ironman Frankfurt: What You Need to Know and The Risks of Overtraining: Learning from Lionel Sanders' Experience
This podcast episode presents a fascinating convergence of expertise, featuring a professional triathlete and the esteemed producer of a widely read triathlon newsletter, alongside a medical contributor from Triathlete magazine. We delve into the intricacies of the upcoming Ironman Frankfurt race, discussing the formidable competitors poised to take the stage, including the notable Christian Blumenfeldt and the returning champion Patrick Lange. The discourse further highlights the challenges facing top athletes, particularly the unfortunate situation of Lionel Sanders, whose season has been marred by injury. In addition, we explore an insightful article I authored on the medical concerns of rhabdomyolysis in triathletes, underscoring the importance of proper training practices and nutritional awareness. Join us as we unpack these vital topics, which are essential for both competitive and recreational triathletes alike.
Links to topics discussed:
The TriDoc Podcast
Matt's Instagram
Jeff's Instagram
Email Jeff: tri_doc@icloud.com
Email Matt: Matt@thetemponews.com
Signup for the Tempo News
Signup for The TriDoc Podcast Supplement form
Transcript
What would happen if you brought together a professional triathlete and producer of one of the most widely read triathlon newsletters?
Speaker B:Together with the tridoc medical contributor for Triathlete magazine, age group winner and coach at LifeSport coaching, I'd say you had.
Speaker A:The makings of a pretty good podcast.
Speaker B:Welcome to Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:Two perspectives, one sport.
Speaker B:All things triathlon.
Speaker B:All right everyone, welcome back to another episode of Tempo Talks.
Speaker B:I've got Jeff here.
Speaker B:You guys can't see him right now, but it looks like he is fresh off the trainer.
Speaker B:His heart rate is at 180 right now.
Speaker B:He's taken back some fluids here.
Speaker B:Jeff, what was the workout you just got off from?
Speaker A:So I.
Speaker A:Getting old sucks.
Speaker A:And I was coming off a boulder.
Speaker A:I was doing pretty well.
Speaker A:I wanted to do this like ultra long ride with my son and I was getting dressed in the morning.
Speaker A:And you know how like when you're.
Speaker A:You don't know because you're not old, but when you're old, people listening to this who are old, they'll understand.
Speaker A:I'm putting on my, my socks and something went in my back and I'm like.
Speaker A:So I've had back spasms for a week and it's driving me up the wall.
Speaker A:Anyways, I was supposed to have a nice leisurely run today and I told coach, I'm like, I can't run.
Speaker A:My back is just killing me.
Speaker A:It's just driving me crazy.
Speaker A:So I said just give me a bike workout instead.
Speaker A:So he gave me this insane workout.
Speaker A:It was like 3 times 9 minutes, just sub threshold and then 3 minutes supra threshold.
Speaker A:I that 3 times with 3 minutes of rest in between.
Speaker A:So what I did was I finished work, I ran downstairs, got on the trainer because I knew we were recording and I like, I was like squeezing out that Last super threshold 3 minutes.
Speaker A:And as soon as it finished I ran upstairs.
Speaker A:So I am dripping sweat.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:This is the dedication Jeff brings to the podcast.
Speaker B:I'm not dripping in sweat here.
Speaker B:I didn't just come off the trainer.
Speaker B:You guys listening?
Speaker B:We all gotta have respect for Jeff here.
Speaker B:I just thought I'd point that out because it was funny, but I'll.
Speaker A:It is the full package.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker B:Heart rate's Jeff, Jack, let's get into it.
Speaker A:We gotta.
Speaker A:I think we have a pretty interesting lineup.
Speaker A:I'm really looking forward to talking about the Ironman race that's coming up this weekend.
Speaker A:It is like full on.
Speaker A:I cannot believe the start list.
Speaker A:I sent you a reel that Ironman put Out today talking about the different pro men that are going to be in Frankfurt this weekend.
Speaker A:And it looks incredible.
Speaker A:I'm looking forward to getting your take on that.
Speaker A:We are going to talk about poor Lionel.
Speaker A:Gonna talk about Lionel, whose season looks like it may be derailed yet again because of injury.
Speaker A:So we're gonna talk about him and we're gonna talk about the article that just came out in Triathlete magazine written by a very learned, very accomplished, accomplished author.
Speaker A:Yes, that would be, one might say.
Speaker A:Yeah, that would be me.
Speaker A:I wrote an article about rhabdomyelysis and about how it afflicted Kyle Smith, the T100 star.
Speaker A:And we'll talk a little bit about what was in that article and I think maybe a bit of a cautionary tale for other age group type athletes.
Speaker A:So let's begin with Ironman Frankfurt.
Speaker A:Matt, it looks amazing.
Speaker B:Yes, this is, you know, we had that Ironman Hamburg showdown with Laura Phillip and Kat Matthews which was incredible.
Speaker B:And now we have the men's version which is Ironman Frankfurt coming up this weekend.
Speaker B:And essentially, yeah, it's essentially a world championship race.
Speaker B:Maybe slightly world championship light, but the field is like you alluded to.
Speaker B:It's incredible.
Speaker B:So we've got the guy who, I feel like who's coming in as the number one pick as the presumptive favorite, Christian Blumenfeldt.
Speaker B:After blowing the doors off of that Texas race and the recent 70.3, he dominated as well.
Speaker B:He seems to be the guy.
Speaker B:We also have the return of the Kona podium from last year.
Speaker B:So you got Patrick Lange, Magnus Dit Lev and Rudy von Berg.
Speaker B:Of course, it keeps coming.
Speaker B:We got the two Norwegians other than Blumenfelt.
Speaker B:Gustav Eden is on the start line.
Speaker B:Casper Stor is on the start line.
Speaker B:We got a couple interesting, I would say front of the race guys, Ben Canute and then Jonas Schomberg from Germany who many people may not have heard of.
Speaker B:I've raced him for years back in short course and he's having a step up year in the Ironman pro series as well.
Speaker A:And that reel that I sent you alluded to his performance in Frankfurt last year.
Speaker A:Talked about him having quite a day out there last year.
Speaker A:So he's not to be trifled.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And then, you know, a couple more, I guess, headliners.
Speaker B:The Cam Cam Wurf who we know will do some damage on the bike and then Daniel Bacagaard who I believe was on the podium in Texas.
Speaker B:I think he was third in the end.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker B:So really this is an A plus field.
Speaker B:This is what we live for in terms of the pro racing when you this is the promise of the T100 get the best athletes on the start line consistently while these guys aren't consistently together But Ironman with their scheduling and whatnot has managed to get yeah just a world championship level field and they've.
Speaker A:Done a great job with this pro series in doing that right in bringing together the guys that are really after the big paycheck they're not having the way T100 sort of restricts it to 20 and get.
Speaker A:And tries to get those same 20 people which is I think a really interesting model.
Speaker A:But Ironman is really pulling out these amazing race start lists and it makes for very exciting spectating.
Speaker B:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker B:And because there is a limited amount of full distance Ironmans and because the full distance Ironmans have the biggest incentives in terms of the pro series like that's ultimately going to be a big draw and that's what's going to bring in these top names.
Speaker B:I think the timing of this race as well in terms of if you're really dialing like a nice performance and an overall pro series performance this is just great timing in terms of if you go out have a good race here you can go back home and have some really good time to lock in and find even another couple percent before the world championships.
Speaker A:It's now as much as much as he is got to be considered a favorite.
Speaker A:It's home race of sorts.
Speaker A:We haven't really seen much from Patrick long because he was injured didn't race in Oceanside Texas was okay but we're really waiting for it to see him in peak.
Speaker B:He never even got to the start line in Texas.
Speaker B:He wasn't even able to race because of this.
Speaker B:It was an addictor strain which I know I've seen my wife, she had a adductor strain couple years years ago and they can just be really finicky, really annoying and we just don't know what to expect from him.
Speaker B:I haven't really seen I follow him on social media and maybe I don't get his posts and things all the time but I just haven't really seen much of him running.
Speaker B:He's always going to be a great.
Speaker A:So I wonder if he's going to start.
Speaker A:Yeah I wonder if he's going to start.
Speaker B:I think I do think he's actually in for the race start.
Speaker B:It's more of will we see glimpses or even a proper showing of this guy Patrick Lange, or is he still behind the eight ball?
Speaker B:Because really, when you have the Blumenfeld to the world, who clearly is firing all cylinders.
Speaker B:You got Magnus Ditlev, who maybe had a little bit of a rough go in St.
Speaker B:George, but clearly is very fit based off his South Africa performance earlier this year.
Speaker B:It's just.
Speaker B:Can he afford to be a few percentage points behind in fitness?
Speaker B:We'll see.
Speaker B:It's one of those things where the race, like, how the race plays out could ultimately help him a little bit as well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Gustav Eden, of course, had a good performance in Texas.
Speaker A:So will he build off of that and show even more?
Speaker A:There's a lot of firepower.
Speaker A:It's going to be there.
Speaker A:And I don't.
Speaker A:I'm not familiar with this course, but I think it's a fast one, right?
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:It's not known as a difficult course.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't think it's like Texas fast.
Speaker B:I don't think.
Speaker B:I don't know if there'll be any, like, world records or whatever like there was in Texas, but who knows?
Speaker B:Because if these guys are all together, that could also just lead to a fast race.
Speaker B:But I do think looking at kind of the dynamics of the race, it'll probably pretty similar to Texas.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's a wetsuit swim or not, but I assume it would be June in Frankfurt.
Speaker B:I don't know if that's going to be cooking too much in terms of the water temperature, but chances are you probably are going to have a big group of many of the big names come out together.
Speaker B:You, you've got Ben Kanude in the field.
Speaker B:He'll push the pace in the front.
Speaker B:Schomburg as well.
Speaker B:I just don't see a lot of separation from maybe the big guys out of the swim.
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker A:No, I think it gets done on the bike.
Speaker A:I think that the swim, like Christian is a good swimmer, but I don't think he's going to play his cards on the swim.
Speaker A:He's going to do what he's been doing this year, which is either establish himself on the bike or if he sees other people doing the work, he'll just sit there and rely on that devastating run that he's got going.
Speaker A:Now, listen, everybody's entitled to not be on or have a day that's not there.
Speaker A:So I just.
Speaker A:I always hesitate to just put it in the bag for him because there's so many other guys here who are extremely capable.
Speaker A:I would not be Surprised to see any one of those guys that we named take the title this weekend just because all of them are so proven at that distance.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And onto the bike.
Speaker B:It's 180k, whatever.
Speaker B:How many miles is 180k?
Speaker B:112 miles, something like that.
Speaker B:Is that what it is?
Speaker A:112.
Speaker B:So that's a long ways.
Speaker B:Do you think we could see like a.
Speaker B:Any kind of movement on the bike?
Speaker B:Maybe a Ditlev type character shaking things.
Speaker A:Up a bit left and back.
Speaker A:A guard clearly are going to.
Speaker A:If they, if they're going to have.
Speaker B:A Scandinavian, they've got to.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They're the bike guys, but they're the bike guys and they know they can't.
Speaker A:Ditlove has definitely improved his run, but I don't know, he can't.
Speaker A:If Lange is running at his best, Dyatlov can't outrun him or Blumenfeld.
Speaker A:Or Blumenfeld.
Speaker A:So he's got to establish the bike and he's got to put a gap on those guys.
Speaker A:You don't have to do it in the first 20k.
Speaker A:You can wait until the second half of the bike.
Speaker A:But I think these guys are strong enough that they will try to put the hurt on people and try and separate the group and then once they get to the back half of the bike, that's when they really will try and establish and put a gap.
Speaker B:If they can't, I think with characters like Ben Kanute, Jonas Schomberg, like Bacagaard, those guys, they really need to get out of the water and immediately start getting some separation on maybe the Langas and the better runners of the world.
Speaker B:So I do think it's just going to be on right away and maybe someone like Ditlev, he'll find himself maybe a minute or so back out of the water of the leaders.
Speaker B:But that's not a huge gap for him.
Speaker B:So it's more.
Speaker B:Will he as alluded to, maybe hold his cards a little bit and then.
Speaker B:Because is that what he did in Kona last year?
Speaker B:He waited till about just a third of the way through and then he started to make his move to the front.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's what I recall.
Speaker B:And we all remember what happened with Blumenfeld when, when he went by that time.
Speaker B:Hopefully he can keep things down this year.
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Although I don't know what the weather forecast I did hear there.
Speaker A:It is supposed to be pretty hot.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They are talking about a heat wave in Europe.
Speaker A:So the weather can easily play, can wreak Havoc on.
Speaker A:On the field as well.
Speaker B:Although that Blumenfeld throwing up video like that went incredibly viral.
Speaker B:So if he wants to do that again, it could be good for the sport in general just to have that.
Speaker A:It's a good way to salvage the day.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a good way to salvage your day.
Speaker B:Good impressions for sure.
Speaker B:And so you think maybe some kind of move on the bike?
Speaker B:Let's say it's still a big pack coming off the bike.
Speaker B:You've got the big names in there.
Speaker B:Who do you think is running away with this?
Speaker A:If they get to the run and they're all looking like they're in good shape, I think it's pretty hard to not see now.
Speaker A:Again, I don't know what condition Lang is in, but he's clearly on paper the best runner of all of them.
Speaker A:Blumenfeld probably second.
Speaker A:And Gustav Eden is an outside.
Speaker A:I don't know, it's hard to tell.
Speaker B:He's on the up for sure.
Speaker B:He's certainly trending up.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Those three would be my pick for the best runners, I think.
Speaker A:But they'd have to get off together because Eden has put himself in a hole coming off the bike and he's not as of yet.
Speaker A:I haven't seen him be able to run down people the way he used to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And one guy who I didn't really mention.
Speaker B:I should have mentioned him.
Speaker B:Rudy Von Berg.
Speaker B:Did I mention him?
Speaker A:You mentioned him being on the stage.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he flies under the radar for me because I am still not totally sure what to make of him and I'm not as familiar with.
Speaker B:He's definitely a guy who probably shouldn't fly under the radar, obviously.
Speaker B:He's got a couple Ironman World Championship podiums.
Speaker A:Had great success.
Speaker B:Great success recently.
Speaker B:But I just.
Speaker B:Not a.
Speaker B:It's not a Blumenfeld.
Speaker B:It's not a ditlab.
Speaker B:There's no kind of separating skill with him.
Speaker B:He's just very good at everything.
Speaker B:And actually he is a guy who, if they all come onto the run together, maybe lang is not 100%.
Speaker B:He's a guy who probably.
Speaker B:I haven't heard of him being injured or anything.
Speaker B:This spring he had great race in Texas.
Speaker B:Could be in for another podium for sure.
Speaker A:Who's your pick?
Speaker A:And pick three, because it's.
Speaker A:It's so hard to pick one.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Who would be three.
Speaker A:Three guys that.
Speaker A:That you think the winner would come out of?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'd say, like, for an actual podium pick, if I was putting money down, it would be probably Blumenfeld for the win.
Speaker B:There's just nothing that suggests that he's not in great form and like ready to go.
Speaker B:So I'd pick Blumenfeld for the win.
Speaker B:I'd put Ditlev second just because he's.
Speaker B:He's just a beast.
Speaker B:And then I think von Berg for third, like just another podium.
Speaker B:Probably not actually definitely not first for him.
Speaker B:I'm just gonna say that right now.
Speaker B:But always in that second, third, fourth situation.
Speaker B:And to me I just haven't seen him.
Speaker B:There's nothing to suggest that he's off his game at all.
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker A:I definitely agree with you on and I'm not going to pick one for the win just because I think that on Ironman is so hard but I think Christian and Magnus for sure, two of the three.
Speaker A:I still.
Speaker A:It's hard for me to pick against Patrick now.
Speaker A:I haven't seen him so it's so hard to know.
Speaker A:But I still think it's pretty hard to pick against him in Germany.
Speaker A:Assuming he's at his best, I would say he would be somewhere in the mix of the top three.
Speaker A:That would be my guess.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's an excellent choice.
Speaker B:The one thing I think that maybe could put a wrench in some athletes plans or could make things go a little sideways because there's such a big group.
Speaker B:I think there's going to be such a big group on the bike, especially at the beginning.
Speaker B:We could see some penalties thrown out a little more liberally than they used to.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker B:If they're throwing out penalties like that changes the dynamic.
Speaker B:But the whole point of changing them down to two minutes instead of whatever it was five minutes was that I think it was gonna give referees the opportunity to make.
Speaker B:To be more.
Speaker A:And be more liberal.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And it definitely won't kill, especially in an iron man like a blue card or whatever, two minutes.
Speaker B:It's not going to kill someone's race but it could definitely take him out of.
Speaker A:Take some out of the group.
Speaker B:Take them out of the group.
Speaker B:So I think these athletes, they know that they really gotta be on there.
Speaker B:They got the race ranger too obviously.
Speaker B:Best behavior though otherwise.
Speaker B:Yeah they could not even a training thing just hey, get this penalty and you're out of your rhythm.
Speaker B:Out of the group.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:You mentioned Rudy Von Berg a couple of times and Rudy von Berg is particularly memorable because of a finish he had in Oceanside against Lionel Sanders a few years ago.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was epic.
Speaker A:Use this to segue into our second topic for the program.
Speaker A:He And Lionel were in a sprint finish for third.
Speaker A:I think it was for third.
Speaker A:And Lionel just took him at the tape.
Speaker A:And it was one of the more memorable finishes we've seen in triathlon over the past several years.
Speaker A:And it's just one of the many reasons Lionel is such a huge fan favorite.
Speaker A:He puts it all out there every time he goes to race.
Speaker A:But unfortunately, he seems to put it all out there whenever he goes to train as well.
Speaker A:And this has, over the years, resulted in just a few injuries.
Speaker A:And many of them have been season ending.
Speaker A:They've been very disruptive to his season preparations.
Speaker A:And after having just an amazing start to his year, he was derailed by, I guess, a pneumonia.
Speaker A:And now he announced in a video just recently, he's been derailed yet again by another injury.
Speaker A: mething he dealt with back in: Speaker A:I can't remember what year it was, but it was a little while ago.
Speaker A:Matt, do you want to bring us up to speed on what Lionel said in his video?
Speaker B:Yeah, he said a lot.
Speaker B:I think like the linalisms or content per second of that video was just unparalleled.
Speaker B:They just.
Speaker B:Things kept coming out of left field.
Speaker B:But essentially, I'm sure a lot of the listeners have seen the video and know what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:But he came out like he had to pull out of.
Speaker B:Was it Lake Placid or maybe another race beforehand because he hurt himself with his glute.
Speaker A:We pulled out of Texas.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then Placid was next up.
Speaker A:And that was what he was saying.
Speaker B:He can't do anyways.
Speaker B:So as it turns out, it sounds like he hasn't determined exactly what it is, but he believes based on what he's feeling and similar experiences in the past, he has a stress fracture or stress reaction in his sacrum.
Speaker B:And he believes the big takeaway, I guess, from this video was that he actually believes this is a symptom of red ass, like the relative energy deficiency syndrome.
Speaker B:Is that correct?
Speaker A:That is what is dance.
Speaker B:So what give us a little like Jeff's take on what red S is.
Speaker A:All right, so this goes back to a.
Speaker A:Back in the 70s, ballet dancers were noted to have a lot of stress factors.
Speaker A:And ballet dancers as very image conscious, they tended to be very small, very thin.
Speaker A:And many of them were noted to have eating disorders.
Speaker A:And so this was then something that was investigated by researchers who also noted the same kind of thing was happening in gymnasts and then in college runners, all women.
Speaker A:And it was eventually described as something called the female athlete triad.
Speaker A:And the female athlete triad consists of amenorrhea or no menstruation, abnormalities in bone density or changes in bone calcium deposition, and then stress fractures and the.
Speaker A:And it all begins with disordered eating.
Speaker A:So it's disordered eating that leads to amenorrhea, that the hormonal changes cause bone deposition or calcium changes in the bone, and that leads to stress fractures.
Speaker A:So the female athlete triad was recognized, and it was identified as a real problem amongst female athletes and ballet dancers.
Speaker A:And there was, with this identification of the syndrome, a heightened awareness among coaches and physicians and trainers to really emphasize nutrition.
Speaker A:But over the years, there was also recognition that the same kind of thing was happening in men, although not to the same severity.
Speaker A:But in order to include the fact that men were susceptible to this kind of problem, there was a broadening of the terminology to be either the low energy availability or lea and then the REDSINT or RED S, which is the relative energy deficiency syndrome.
Speaker A:Now, the real key difference between men and women is the hormonal changes.
Speaker A:When women have disordered eating, they don't.
Speaker A:They tend to exercise at a high rate.
Speaker A:They don't fuel properly.
Speaker A:They will get disorders in their hypothalamic axis, and that's what causes them to stop menstruating.
Speaker A:And it's that change in their hormonal balance that causes them to stop laying down calcium in their bones, and that makes them much more susceptible to these stress fractures.
Speaker A:With men, it's not entirely clear what's going on.
Speaker A:It seems to be that they have more issues with disordered eating that leads them to not perform very well because they're just not getting in enough fuel.
Speaker A:They tend to lose weight.
Speaker A:They don't seem to have as much risk for the fractures, but the fractures definitely are part of the problem.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's what he talked about was like, he's had stress fractures in the past.
Speaker B:And he was saying that this could have been part of it in the past.
Speaker B:He highlighted a few symptoms.
Speaker B:His sleep for a while has been really bad.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:I think he had to wake up in the night to go pee six times, he was saying.
Speaker B:Or something, which to me sounds absolutely insane.
Speaker B:That definitely is a red flag.
Speaker B:I don't know how long that's been going on for, but just not great.
Speaker B:And he talked about the classic, like, erectile dysfunction, essentially, that he was having.
Speaker B:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:Talk about sharing.
Speaker B:Yeah, he went there and I think it's good.
Speaker B:I think it's good for him to be bringing that stuff up because when someone like that with that platform talks about these issues, then I'm sure other people who are listening who are maybe experiencing similar symptoms or whatever, might be able to fix themselves or learn more or whatever.
Speaker B:So I actually, I think it's a good thing that he's been able to talk about this.
Speaker B:But yeah, just it just some of the stuff that he's talking about in this video.
Speaker B:One of the things, I think the big thing for me was, and he brought it up, he talked about.
Speaker B:I don't know if you're.
Speaker B:Are you a Lionel watcher?
Speaker B:Like, I'm Lionel watcher.
Speaker A:What do you mean?
Speaker B:You just pay attention to what he's doing?
Speaker B:Watch his videos.
Speaker A:I don't watch as much, but I definitely, I'm a fan.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And I definitely pay attention.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I definitely, I'm a fan for sure.
Speaker B:Definitely got the Lionel bias.
Speaker B:But it's actually interesting because he brought this up in the video he was talking about.
Speaker B:It would have been like a year or so ago.
Speaker B:He came out with this video saying how he eats really crappy.
Speaker B:Like he eats tons of processed food.
Speaker B:And I remember how he wants to clean up his diet.
Speaker B:And I actually remember at the time thinking, dude, you can't go down that cleaning rabbit hole too much because you need the calories.
Speaker B:Like, he needs the calories to be able to train how he does.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, he's probably got the best nutritionist or whatever on staff.
Speaker B:Maybe that's gonna ensure he's ultimately getting enough calories for what his body demands.
Speaker B:And in this video he just posted, it sounds he's been doing the clean eating.
Speaker B:And that actually might be, in a way, what's contributed to this.
Speaker B:Like, eating healthy is great, right?
Speaker A:But you gotta do it.
Speaker A:Could you imagine how different Lionel's career would have been if he had the right team around him throughout and if he had listened to them?
Speaker A:Because his whole career has been, he gets somebody on board, he works really well with them for a short amount of time and then decides he needs to blow it up because he doesn't like something or he hasn't, or he.
Speaker B:Thinks he's learned enough.
Speaker B:I think that's what it is.
Speaker B:I think he's happy to learn things from people, but I think maybe he just gets to this threshold where he's, okay, I learned enough, I'm ready to.
Speaker A:And then it's time to jettison.
Speaker A:He goes, he gets self coached.
Speaker A:He's I know all about nutrition.
Speaker A:I'm gonna do this.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:And it really is too bad because I think that surrounding yourself with the right people and the people who have the knowledge is so critical now.
Speaker A:You have to be able to trust them.
Speaker A:And maybe he just isn't a very trusting person.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It just blows my mind because I know this guy has the resources to source out the best coaches, the best nutritionists.
Speaker B:And it just like the way he was talking about how he was figuring out his caloric needs.
Speaker B:It just like he took the basic human recommendations and then added in what he needed to train properly.
Speaker B:But it's, dude, you're not a basic human.
Speaker B:Like, you're a freak.
Speaker B:You need so many more calories.
Speaker A:And it goes back to his video that we watched over the winter where he was talking about how much he's training and.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's just.
Speaker A:It's really unfortunate.
Speaker B:Yes, it's unfortunate because not having him at these races.
Speaker B:I've talked about this before.
Speaker B:He's a character who transcends the sport.
Speaker B:He brings people into the sport.
Speaker B:When he races and does videos, it does good, does bad, doesn't necessarily matter as long as he's at the race and putting out those videos.
Speaker B:So it's a shame that he won't be racing for a bit.
Speaker B:He was even.
Speaker B:It was interesting too, because he was talking about, like his return to run and he's, I'm gonna give it four weeks.
Speaker B:And I'm like, dude, give it a little bit longer.
Speaker B:You've got a stress fracture reaction.
Speaker B:You don't even know what it is yet.
Speaker B:Based on the video.
Speaker A:If he only has a stress reaction.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:And he's not bothered by biking and swimming as long as he's got someone monitoring it.
Speaker A:That's the thing.
Speaker A:The problem is doing it all on his own.
Speaker B:He's still not getting enough energy, though.
Speaker B:He's not healing right.
Speaker B:Like, you got to have enough calories to heal.
Speaker B:Maybe he just needs a few more trips to McDonald's at the end of the day and that'll do the job.
Speaker A:He's been down that road before.
Speaker A:He lost a whole year because of low energy stuff.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I don't remember that.
Speaker A:Amazed that he's doing this again.
Speaker B:What happened last?
Speaker B:I don't remember this.
Speaker B:When was this?
Speaker A:This was like the year that he had a sacral fracture.
Speaker A:I think he talked a lot at that time too about not having good nutrition and that playing a role.
Speaker A:And I don't Know, I just.
Speaker A:There was one year also, it may have been a different year that he was a guy.
Speaker A:It all blends into one.
Speaker A:But I remember him talking about how he was training so hard and he wasn't doing nutrition right.
Speaker A:And because of that, he'd run out of gas in races.
Speaker A:And I don't know, it's just really unfortunate.
Speaker A:And I agree with you.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm a huge fan.
Speaker A:I think he's huge for the sport.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Is there a.
Speaker B:Do you have a tell when you think you're not getting enough calories, enough fuel in your day?
Speaker A:I tell you, Matt, I've never had that problem.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be so bad if I had that problem once in a while.
Speaker B:Maybe targeted that issue for the.
Speaker B:A race of the year or something.
Speaker B:But, yeah, okay, I.
Speaker B:For me, I know if I don't have enough calories, like, I just get grumpy, a little foggy.
Speaker B:I'll make.
Speaker B:I remember some periods where I was really training and I would have my third workout of the day and I get in, I'd start swimming or even start running and almost get dizzy just bonking straight away.
Speaker B:So for me, yeah, that's a towel for sure.
Speaker B:But who.
Speaker A:Who manages your new.
Speaker B:I do, but.
Speaker B:So my thing is, I've been very fortunate, actually to piggyback off Kirsten because she has had access to, like, the U.S.
Speaker B:olympic Committee nutritionists.
Speaker B:One of the nutritionists, especially Liz Fusco, she works with the US Rowing team as well.
Speaker B:And she really.
Speaker B:Because I think Kirsten, my wife, like, she'll tell you, like, she grew up running.
Speaker B:She was in NCAA run program.
Speaker B:And those aren't famous for instilling good eating habits.
Speaker B:No, there's a lot of bodies strewn about from those programs.
Speaker B:And yeah, she was going down that road a little bit of the.
Speaker B:I don't want, I guess, like disordered eating.
Speaker B:And she was lucky enough to have access to this incredible nutritionist, Liz Fusco.
Speaker B:And I learned a bunch, too, from her, just around taking enough calories, obviously, during training and then before and after.
Speaker B:And I think that's partly why I've had the career I've had, because I've just been able to fuel well and I'm a bigger guy, so I got to eat even more.
Speaker B:And not everybody has that, but there's definitely.
Speaker B:If you want to research it, there's tons of literature out there, and I think Liz even has some stuff out there as well.
Speaker B:Great resource, for sure.
Speaker A:Red S Is a big deal.
Speaker A:And if I think what you Mentioned as symptoms is pretty classic.
Speaker A:So if you're feeling like you're getting into a workout and.
Speaker A:Or even if you're finishing a workout and feeling those kinds of emotions of either depressed mood or irritable and definitely more fatigue than you should feel, then yeah, that is a sign that you're under fueled and it's important to reevaluate that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And as an aside, I don't know if you have this during races or not.
Speaker B:Like, my perception of my race can be so influenced by my blood sugar level, so.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like sometimes in a race, if I'm like, this is sucks, I'm doing crappy or whatever, and then I'll take a gel or something and then I'll be like, oh, wait, no, I'm actually okay.
Speaker B:Like, it's wild.
Speaker A:Matt, you haven't seen those Snickers commercials?
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A:Where it's like you get hangry.
Speaker B:Yeah, same, same.
Speaker A:I will something that will.
Speaker A:If you share this with Kirsten, it'll mortify her.
Speaker A:But my daughter, the pole vaulter, they jump on poles that are rated by weight.
Speaker A:And in high school, they have a rule where you cannot jump on a pole that your weight is higher than.
Speaker A:So for example, my daughter tends to jump on poles that are 12ft long and they are rated for weights that are like 125, 130, whatever.
Speaker A:Occasionally she likes to jump on a 120 pole to start, just to warm up.
Speaker A:And they weigh all the girls in public in front of each other.
Speaker B:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Has to stand on a stool in front of the referee and in front of all the other girls and their weight is recorded and they are told, this is your weight.
Speaker A:You cannot jump on poles that are under your.
Speaker A:And she gets very upset because she tends to weigh about 121, 21, and she'll vacillate by a pound.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And we are always telling her, would you just relax, you look great.
Speaker A:Forget about it.
Speaker A:It's a number.
Speaker A:Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:Fortunately, she's.
Speaker A:She now jumps at poles that are rated much higher than her weight.
Speaker A:So it's all better.
Speaker A:But it's absurd that they make these girls weigh themselves in public and then make a big deal because that is.
Speaker B:Like just straight to anorexia ville.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Oh, it's brutal.
Speaker A:It's all.
Speaker B:Hopefully they can get that sorted.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, and Lauren, that same daughter, she's editing Tempo Talks now.
Speaker A:She's going to hear this whole.
Speaker B:Lauren, if you're listening to this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Try not to take that.
Speaker A:And you're amazing, Lauren, you look great.
Speaker A:And you pole vaulting, amazing.
Speaker A:And you don't have to worry about that.
Speaker A:All right, we are going to move to our third and final topic, which is the article that I wrote for Triathlete Magazine.
Speaker A:It just came out in the last week or so.
Speaker A:And it was something that came to my attention because my editor at Triathlete Magazine reached out to me and said, hey, did you know that Kyle Smith had this episode of rhabdomyolysis?
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:And why did he get it?
Speaker A:And how or should age group athletes be worried about this?
Speaker A:So rhabdomyolysis is something that I was quite familiar with.
Speaker A:It's something that I see or have seen in my clinical practice over the years.
Speaker A:And it's also something I was quite familiar that exertion and endurance athletes, it goes together.
Speaker A:So rhabdomyolysis is just a breakdown of muscles and it can happen for a variety of reasons.
Speaker A:There's basically three categories.
Speaker A:Traumatic toxin mediated and then exertional.
Speaker A:And what Kyle Smith was doing is he was getting ready for the Singapore race.
Speaker A:And to do that, he was doing heat acclimation, doing all the things we've talked about, basically working out in hot environment.
Speaker A:It was New Zealand.
Speaker A:It was New Zealand's winter, actually.
Speaker A:It was their summer.
Speaker A:But he was like, in his bathroom.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's not Singapore.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So he was in his bathroom, steaming up the bathroom, wearing a wetsuit, on his bike.
Speaker A:And then he was doing swimming in the hot pools and topa.
Speaker A:And having been in those hot pools, they are ridiculously hot.
Speaker A:I cannot believe swimming in there.
Speaker A:Anyways, he did all of this and then one day his muscles were aching, he was very weak.
Speaker A:He goes to the hospital, finds out he's completely, completely in rhabdomyolysis.
Speaker A:He's broken down his muscles.
Speaker A:Fortunately, he didn't get kidney failure, which is the devastating complication that can come from this.
Speaker A:But he did have a very prolonged period of time during which he had to wait for his muscles to rebuild themselves, and that's why he missed the results.
Speaker B:Did he literally cook himself?
Speaker B:Like, literally.
Speaker A:That is pretty much what's going on.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's pretty much what's going on.
Speaker A:You're breaking the bar, the.
Speaker A:Breaking the cell membranes, the myoglobin is breaking down and it's being released into the bloodstream.
Speaker A:And yeah, he cooked himself.
Speaker B:This is.
Speaker B:Yeah, triathletes are wild, like people.
Speaker A:And his video that he put out about it was like, oh, I just figured if doing this much heat acclimation was good.
Speaker A:I'm just going to do more because that will be better.
Speaker A:And which is a very typical sort of triathlete mindset.
Speaker B:Yes, people like triathletes typically type A, motivated, willing to go the extra mile to get a result, what have you.
Speaker B:And this guy went all the way to cooking himself, literally, like biking in the wetsuit.
Speaker B:Like I just heard that and I'm like, what, what are you doing?
Speaker B:And probably no, like, I'm sure he was monitoring his.
Speaker B:Maybe he would have his monitoring his core temperature with one of those devices.
Speaker A:I don't think he was just raw dogging, he was heat training, raw dogging, the whole thing.
Speaker A:So the takeaway from this is, look, rhabdomyelysis during an event is actually pretty unusual.
Speaker A:It's pretty rare because it's.
Speaker B:That's the traumatic one.
Speaker A:No, that's the exertional one.
Speaker A:So I've actually taken care of people.
Speaker A:I was working in the emergency department.
Speaker A:A guy came in from the Denver marathon.
Speaker A:It was like a really hot day and the guy came in and he was in rhabdomyolysis.
Speaker A:So it does happen, but it's pretty unusual.
Speaker A:And the best way to avoid it is to keep yourself well hydrated and as cool as possible, which we all try to do.
Speaker A:But even then, sometimes it happens.
Speaker A:And the longer you're out there, the harder you're working, the hotter it is, the, the greater the risk is.
Speaker A:So there's not much you can do to prevent it.
Speaker A:But you don't have to worry too much.
Speaker A:Instead you just want to avoid these kinds of self inflicted things.
Speaker A:So if you're doing heat acclimation training, which is still fine, we talked about it, we talked about it recently about how it can actually even substitute for altitude training.
Speaker A:So it is fine.
Speaker A:But you just got to be careful.
Speaker A:Stay within the protocols, don't exceed it.
Speaker A:If you finish a heat workout or if you finish a heat session and you're feeling sore, that's not normal.
Speaker A:And you should be a little bit concerned if your urine ever turns brownish.
Speaker A:That's very abnormal.
Speaker A:And you need to seek care.
Speaker B:You can't just, you can't.
Speaker B:People can't see me, but I'm shaking my head.
Speaker B:This is the triathlete cautionary tale episode.
Speaker B:No, don't not eat and get yourself red ass.
Speaker B:And don't bike in your wet.
Speaker A:Don't overcook yourself.
Speaker B:Literally cook yourself.
Speaker B:Yeah, please don't do that.
Speaker A:And if you want to know more about that, if you want to see the article, it's A quick read.
Speaker A:We'll put the link in the show notes and you can go check it out.
Speaker A:I think that's all we've got for you this week on Tempo Talk.
Speaker A:So we hope you've enjoyed the program.
Speaker A:If you have questions, if you have something you want to hear us discuss, please do drop us a line.
Speaker A:Our contact information is in the Show Notes.
Speaker A:You can also join the Talk Tempo Talks Facebook group.
Speaker A:We've had some great conversations in there, so please take a look on Facebook you will answer the three easy questions will gain you admittance and we'd love to hear your comments and questions that you might have.
Speaker A:We really enjoy interacting with the listeners on that platform.
Speaker A:So please do have a head over there and take a look.
Speaker A:Matt, what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker B:Yeah, this weekend.
Speaker B:Just a big training weekend.
Speaker B:I think I'm locked in for my next race which is going to be Boise 70.3.
Speaker B:So that's an end of July, I believe.
Speaker B:Got some time to try and find some gains, especially on the bike.
Speaker B:Actually.
Speaker B:I'm also doing a bit more biking now, but not because of my back.
Speaker B:Just need to get stronger.
Speaker A:I need my back to heal up so I can get back to running.
Speaker A:But I've got Oregon coming up in a few weeks and I got a good block of training before.
Speaker B:You don't even need to swim before that race.
Speaker A:That is crazy.
Speaker B:Just float down the river.
Speaker A:I am going to just take the current and go.
Speaker B:Yeah, good stuff.
Speaker A:All right, we'll see you next week.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening everybody and thanks for being here.
Speaker A:Matt, we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker B:Thanks for tuning in everyone and see you soon.
Speaker B:Jeff.
Speaker C:Tempo Talks is a production of the Triathlon Performance Hub along with the Tridoc podcast and is produced and edited by the amazing and talented Lauren Sancoff.
Speaker C:If you enjoyed the program, Matt and Jeff would love if you would leave a rating and review wherever you download your audio content and would love it even more if you shared it with a friend or three.
Speaker C:You can join the talktempo Talks Facebook group by searching for it on that platform, answering the easy questions and they will gain you admittance.
Speaker C:Once you are in you can ask questions and join the conversation.
Speaker C:Tempo Talks will be back with a brand new episode next week.
Speaker C:Until then, avoid the penalty tent.
